• WARNING: Tube/Valve amplifiers use potentially LETHAL HIGH VOLTAGES.
    Building, troubleshooting and testing of these amplifiers should only be
    performed by someone who is thoroughly familiar with
    the safety precautions around high voltages.

Most expensive parts in DIY tube amp

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#41
Fantastic! RajkoM
But with all due respects, not everyone is as a DIY'er as you.
Winding an OPT is beyond most of us, also I do not argue that $5K OPT's are just a con.
Just like anything else in life there is a diminishing results curve when you buy anything. (Toyota vs Aston-Martin)
Up to a certain price (if chosen wisely) you can have 90% quality. from there on you have to throw silly money to get an extra few percents.
However, do not forget the phrase "Mid-life Crisis" !
to most of us this is a labour of love, getting the best-that-money can buy, is part of the fun.
You don't always want good-enough sound, we are not in competition with commercial manufacturers.
 
#43
You can also check out the Transcendar transformers. I built a 6v6pp amp using some of their OPTs and it sounds fantastic. They have both SE and PP output iron. As an added bonus, you don't have to wait forever for them to ship like you do with Edcor. I got mine in less than 2 weeks.
 
#44
In my experience power transformer and chokes are at least as important as output transformers if one is looking for good sound.
IMHO buying the best one can afford is mandatory

Paper Vs Plastic(s):
I have done a lot of comparative testing on different insulation materials and YES, they make the difference. We have wound the same OPTs using a dozen different combinations of insulation materials and natural fibre based materials have proven superior, PTFE was coming close (but is really awkward to work with) than polypropylene and other artificial materials.

Insulation materials seem to be much more important than bobbin former material, providing high tension is used during winding.

Winding tension is rather critical factor heavily influencing final sound quality.
Problem is high tension winding requires manual control and low speed.
 
#46
KenTajalli said:
Fantastic! RajkoM

Up to a certain price (if chosen wisely) you can have 90% quality. .
Click to expand...

😀 Thanks Bas.

Ken,
I agree and I think more than 90%.
In my another SET, with the help of my friends, I tried "very brand", "brand" and "200 $" OPTs. In the end I was left with a "200$" transformers.

IMO, with output transformers that have a decent frequency response, say 40-16000 Hz, the most important for good sound from SE amplifier's is Input (voltage amplification) stage and then responsibilities PSU.
 

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#48
Gorgomat said:
Power transformers with paper insulation are banned for a good reason in some countries. They can provide you with a very "warm" sound indeed, if your house burns down to the ground 😉
Click to expand...
You mean commercially!
True that if the output (i.e. the speaker) is suddenly removed from a tube amp while playing loud, can explode the OPT, so fire retirement is vital when it comes to commercial devices.
But to a DIY'er, anything is game.
Just keep em away from curtains!
or alternatively have your wife to switch it on or off.😛
 
#51
Gorgomat said:
Power transformers with paper insulation are banned for a good reason in some countries. They can provide you with a very "warm" sound indeed, if your house burns down to the ground 😉
Click to expand...

"Paper" is just a conventional word to identify the insulation material. 😉

Read it as "Natural Fiber Based Insulation Materials".

Everybody is working with CE safety norms approved materials in Europe.
There is "paper" approved for use in F class power transformers 😎

Anyhow we where talking OPTs 😉
 
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#52
The problem is, once you build a device ( at least in Germany ) you are considered to be a manufacturer ; if anything happens, the insurance company will be glad to not pay you a dime and if eg. people get a electric shock and die ( most guys don´t care about electrical safety at all ), you´re one step away from being put into jail 😀

The solution to some problems is very simple: Use fuses for the primary coil and also use fuses for every secondary coil of your transformer. Worst case, you have to replace a fuse and not a burned down transformer.

But we all know the Audiophools who fear every "extra component" added in a device ( even if it´s a vital one ).🙄

KenTajalli said:
You mean commercially!
True that if the output (i.e. the speaker) is suddenly removed from a tube amp while playing loud, can explode the OPT, so fire retirement is vital when it comes to commercial devices.
But to a DIY'er, anything is game.
Just keep em away from curtains!
or alternatively have your wife to switch it on or off.😛
Click to expand...
 
#53
Gorgomat said:
The problem is, once you build a device ( at least in Germany ) you are considered to be a manufacturer ; if anything happens, the insurance company will be glad to not pay you a dime and if eg. people get a electric shock and die ( most guys don´t care about electrical safety at all ), you´re one step away from being put into jail 😀

The solution to some problems is very simple: Use fuses for the primary coil and also use fuses for every secondary coil of your transformer. Worst case, you have to replace a fuse and not a burned down transformer.

But we all know the Audiophools who fear every "extra component" added in a device ( even if it´s a vital one ).🙄
Click to expand...
Fuses are a must, no argument.
RCD is now law in EU too, so that should help too.
What ! No home insurance?
does that include life-insurance on loved-ones?😀
 
#54
Gorgomat said:
The problem is, once you build a device ( at least in Germany ) you are considered to be a manufacturer ; if anything happens, the insurance company will be glad to not pay you a dime and if eg. people get a electric shock and die ( most guys don´t care about electrical safety at all ), you´re one step away from being put into jail 😀

The solution to some problems is very simple: Use fuses for the primary coil and also use fuses for every secondary coil of your transformer. Worst case, you have to replace a fuse and not a burned down transformer.

But we all know the Audiophools who fear every "extra component" added in a device ( even if it´s a vital one ).🙄
Click to expand...


😀 A little too much, it seems.
I know that thousands of radio-amateurs in Germany and in EU comunity have home-brew power amplifiers with 3-4-5 KW output power, with 4-5 KV anode voltage. Audiophools are small joke for them.

None of them talking about it.
 
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#57
If you always will skimp the money on every project how will you know whats possible with better components? Bud Purvine from Onetics , Ciro Marzio , Dave Slage , Tribute transformer maker are not thieves , nor they are getting rich or even well winding their transformers . Even those "overpriced " Tamura , Tangos are being phased out of the market because they are simply not generating enough income from sale for their makers. Like bad money pushes out of the market a good money , crap is pushing out good product and most here seem to happily join the trend to speed up that process.
Transformers are like whisky, some are like moonshine and some are little more refined. Surely it's possible to stumble on cheap and refined Trans especially if its a surplus vintage item but generally good vintage transformers are well recognized and cost real money as well.
Spend "engagement ring" money on the transformers , build that amp and if it turns out that SET is not really working out for you with a broken heart start heading into "another direction" 🙂
 
#58
Well, you can measure transformers and compare their data. If a manufacturer ( with slightly worse performance ) demands 1000 $ for his "magic transformers built by single women at full moon " while another manufacturer only asks for 100 $ and also performs better ( note: with proper measuring equipment you can indeed compare transformers )...would you still buy the expensive transformer ?

Some manufacturers actually show you measurement results of what you can expect from their transformers while others ( mainly the more expensive "Fukushima" , "Mattsumoto" or simply invent another name ) don´t want to show you any extra data but instead claim to be better ?

This is the main reason why these manufacturers will have to end their business sooner or later 😉
 
#59
Perhaps one of you could point me to the $10 single-ended OPTs that can handle 200W output with 5kV plate voltage swings, give bass response down to the limits of human hearing and treble response out to 66kHz, with teflon insulation and amorphous double C-cores?

While I wait I'll just enjoy the beautiful music made by my ridiculous, audiophoolishly-overpriced amplifiers, safe in the knowledge that I made them myself, exactly as I wanted them, spending money that I earned through my labors for something that I desired, that provide me with a return far exceeding their cost, and are unlike anyone else's amplifiers in the world. Taming thousands of volts and safely bending them to my will also gets me off, as does powering woefully inefficient Infinity speakers with an SET. Go figure; guess I'm just a contrarian.
 
#60
Magz said:
Perhaps one of you could point me to the $10 single-ended OPTs that can handle 200W output with . . . .
Click to expand...
Wo, wow!
You nailed at 200W. (or was it $10?)
no need to go any further.
As I have said in other threads:
Yes the snake-oil merchants are alive and well
BUT not every oil is a snake-oil!
not every merchant deals in snake-oil.

I myself, had to go from a £500 DAC to a £1300 to get what I want, and they are all full of chips! ($800 to $1900)
 
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