Philips AD-12100/M8 in BIB?

[microdub]

So newbie question (still working what it all means).

Have a chance to buy a pair of these drivers and have been reading about BIBs. I kow many people use them in OB, Bass reflex and onkens, but how would these Philips drivers go in a BIB?

I found these values on another forum:

Modèle : AD12100 M8
Type : double cône, suspension petits plis, aimant ferrite
Puissance nominale : 25 W
Puissance maxi : 40 W
Bande passante : 40 – 15 kHz
Fréquence de résonance : 36 Hz
QMS : 2,763
QES : 0,558
QTS : 0,464
VAS : 193,3 l
Mms : 31,6 g
Rendement : 93 dB
Impédance : 8 Ohms
Diamètre bobine : 50 mm
Diamètre ferrite : 133 mm
Diamètre : 314,5 mm
Profondeur du HP : 151,4 mm
Ouverture Baffle : 278 mm
Volume conseillé : 80 L
Entre axe diagonal : 294 m
Poids : 3,2 kg l'unité

 

[microdub]

Fs 36Hz
Re 7,1ohm
Qes 0,558
Qms 2,763

Qts 0,464
Vas 193,3 ltr
Mms 31,6 g
calculated Rms 2,59 kg/s
Spl 93,8 dB

 

[microdub]

Using this:
https://sites.google.com/site/speakerprojects/enclosures/bib

I get this:
Driver Brand Philips Driver Model AD-12100/M8 Fs 36 Vas (cu. Ft) 6.82632507 Qts 0.464 Line Length 187.008 Folded Height 93.504 Vb 52.283 Sm 966.227 Depth (internal) 36.966 Width (internal) 26.139 zdriver 40.581 a-b-c 18.483 Conversion
Liters
193.3
Cubic Feet
6.826325073


Cabinet
Wood Width 0.750 Outside Dimensions
Width (external) 27.639 Depth (external) 38.466 Height (external) 94.254
I'm assuming all dimensions are in inches.
So:
Width: 70cm
Depth: 96cm
Height 240 cm

OK - but how would it play?

 

[Deyan]

I only hope you have large room because this are BIG.I have this drivers also, but i will make "Studio 12" BR boxes(plans are here on diyaudio)
Good luck....

 

[xrk971]

Sim of AD12100 in BIB

This is a huge speaker: 93.5in tall x 26in wide x 37in deep. Here is the predicted response with the BIB shoved up against a wall (assuming you have tall ceilings). There is no stuffing in these sims so the mids and HF's are higher in predictions than reality.

Freq response at 2.83v and 1m - goes very deep as you would expect from such a large horn but has a rather wide and deep notch around 70Hz. It looks like it still needs a baffle step correction (BSC) circuit:

Cone excursion in mm:

Impedance:

If you add a 7ohm and 1.5mH BSC circuite you get this:

 

[freddi]

X - how do those TS look in the original Karlson K15? - assuming it has good clarity and extended top, it should sound good

 

[xrk971]

X - how do those TS look in the original Karlson K15? - assuming it has good clarity and extended top, it should sound good

The Qts of 0.464 looks too high for a K15, but the sim shows that it can work.

 

[freddi]

I think it practice it will look ~"flat" - I ran Beta15cx in K15 - had to tighten the rear lowpass gap to make it sound right on DAFO's drum beats and drop of "The Beast" - Imageshack lost my graph comparing behavior to a JBL M151

here's Beta15's TS - it was fairly enjoyable in K15 with a 40sq.in. vent


Resonant Frequency (fs) 34 Hz
Impedance (Re) 5.54 ohms
Coil Inductance (Le) 1.06mH
Electromagnetic Q (Qes) .58
Mechanical Q (Qms) 7.68
Total Q (Qts) .54
Compliance Equivalent Vol. (Vas) 366.4 Liters/12.94cu. ft.
Voice Coil Overhang (Xmax) 3.0mm
Surface area of Cone (Sd) .08237m2

 

[GM]

.......but how would these Philips drivers go in a BIB?

Just fine, though due to its low Fs and not a 'sub' woofer, I recommend using a higher Fs to calculate the BIB, so that it will place the driver a bit lower and shift the horn's bandwidth [BW] high enough to cover up to at least 80 Hz.

Really, unless one has a high ceiling, the 'stock' 48.78 Hz BIB tuning will work fine for most drivers. Here's a ~typical sim: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...e-fostex-craft-handbooks-126.html#post3082457

The sims look really bad, but once mildly damped and up against a wall and especially if corner loaded, it's really a pretty impressive performer.

GM

 

[freddi]

here's ~ground plane of K15 loaded with the old Beta15 coaxial - you can interpret how much peaking is occurring - there was no ramp-up in the 200Hz region as seen with lower qts speakers - I would think the Phillips to be suitable

Resonant Frequency (fs) 34 Hz
Impedance (Re) 5.54 ohms
Coil Inductance (Le) 1.06mH
Electromagnetic Q (Qes) .58
Mechanical Q (Qms) 7.68
Total Q (Qts) .54
Compliance Equivalent Vol. (Vas) 366.4 Liters/12.94cu. ft.
Voice Coil Overhang (Xmax) 3.0mm
Surface area of Cone (Sd) .08237m2

 

[xrk971]

Just fine, though due to its low Fs and not a 'sub' woofer, I recommend using a higher Fs to calculate the BIB, so that it will place the driver a bit lower and shift the horn's bandwidth [BW] high enough to cover up to at least 80 Hz.

Really, unless one has a high ceiling, the 'stock' 48.78 Hz BIB tuning will work fine for most drivers. Here's a ~typical sim: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...e-fostex-craft-handbooks-126.html#post3082457

The sims look really bad, but once mildly damped and up against a wall and especially if corner loaded, it's really a pretty impressive performer.

GM

+1 stuffing is needed and once properly adjusted, BIB's sound very good. I have built several much smaller ones and have always had good success. The size on this one may need another fold to make manageable though.

 

[pecello]

I only hope you have large room because this are BIG.I have this drivers also, but i will make "Studio 12" BR boxes(plans are here on diyaudio)
Good luck....

Did You find the lenght of the ports for Monitor12 ??????
Da li si saznao duzinu basrelex porta???

 

[Deyan]

Did You find the lenght of the ports for Monitor12 ??????
Da li si saznao duzinu basrelex porta???

No,did not,do you have any info?????
Ne nisam,da li imas neku informaciju?

 

[Deyan]

Did You find the lenght of the ports for Monitor12 ??????
Da li si saznao duzinu basrelex porta???

No,did not,do you have any info?????
Ne nisam,da li imas neku informaciju?

 

[Godzilla]

That's a big BIB. Too big imo.

 

[pecello]

No,did not,do you have any info?????
Ne nisam,da li imas neku informaciju?

No nothing, there is 2 drawings, with different lenght,what is the right lenght of port I dont know....I got ad12100/hp8 and I want to make the monitor12 enclosure,but without the right dimension I dont want to start🙁

 

[GM]

Don't know what the Monitor 12's vent length is, but FWIW, the vent for this cab [which has a net Vb > the recommended 80 L] needs to be longer than the cab is deep to tune it down to 44 Hz where its advertising implies it is, so I recommend it be terminated 6.53 cm from the rear wall to work properly, though will tune it closer to 50 Hz.

That said, the driver's available power handling capability is nowhere near enough to justify such a large vent to keep vent mach low, so FWIW, a 4" [10.16 cm] diameter pipe x 2" [5.08 cm] long will tune it to ~44 Hz as well as giving you the option of tuning it lower with a longer vent to reduce any obvious reflex 'ringing' if desired.

GM

 

[Deyan]

GM thank you so much.

 

[GM]

You're welcome! Please let us know what you decide on, how it performs, etc..

GM

 

[pecello]

You're welcome! Please let us know what you decide on, how it performs, etc..

GM

THANKSSS