Yes man i know that and so i have do with my equalizer at my speakers.... i have also 1 question is hornresp reliable about frequency response gives ?? How it can get out results without aware frequency response of my woofer and xmax ??? just only with some parametres... so is it reliable ?? just must know....
Last edited:
Because low frequency response is dominated by the Thiele/Small model (mass, motor, and compliance). In this respect, it is VERY AWARE of the frequency response of your woofer. As long as what you build matches the simulation in terms of effective path lengh, enclosed air volume, and taper rate the low end will come out close to predictions. If your build deviates, so will the response. It also assumes linear response and no power compression. Use the predicted excursion to determine how hard you can push your woofer before the whole model falls apart (keep it below xmax, or xmax+10%, etc). Then you have to judge the result down by expected power compression - about 2dB for premium woofers and about 5-6dB for run of the mill Eminence. Also note the BL will drop and Re will go up as it heats - so you can still see what heat can potentially do by varying these parametrers.
The high end is a totally different animal. Any simulator's output is based on assumptions - the biggest one being true pistonic behavior. Cone and basket resonances, and breakup modes are not modeled. Hornresp (I believe) assumes a circular cross section and no bends. Deviating from this won't affect the low end, but affects the high end a lot. The closer you are in your build to the theroetical model, the closer the results are. For a subwoofer you usually don't care. For your kickbin or midrange, you may.
for midbass i use 2 x 15" for lows 2 x 21" and 2 x 2" for midhigh. Les cabinets big power.....
In general, 12's seem to model better than 15's as horn loaded midbasses. 15's like 40-50 Hz tuning, 12's are happier with 80 Hz cutoffs. Of course there are exceptions, but you really want to choose the right driver for the job - not insist on using a particular size. The mass corner will be higher and you'll stand a better chance of getting up to meet the 2". But it's still not the best way to do this.
On my big system, I gave up and went 4 way. Not needing to go above 200-300 lets you do things like fold the kickbin horn. If I ever do it again, the upper 2 ways will probably be based on Art's SynTripP - and still be 4 way with a dedicated kick (or rather, stack of them). They're good down to 300 without the flare extension....
This all being said, and in agreement with some of the other posters in this thread - you may be attempting to bite off more than you can chew. My smaller practical rig consisting of 4 TH18 and two conventional 2x12/2" reflex boxes is more than sufficient to do a "500 person dance". The bigger rig grew out of doing outdoor events requiring 500 yards of sound throw and 180 degrees coverage. I don't even do that sort of thing anymore. Last time I had it out, I used half of it in a hotel ballroom and damn near blew the roof off of it.
On my big system, I gave up and went 4 way. Not needing to go above 200-300 lets you do things like fold the kickbin horn. If I ever do it again, the upper 2 ways will probably be based on Art's SynTripP - and still be 4 way with a dedicated kick (or rather, stack of them). They're good down to 300 without the flare extension....
This all being said, and in agreement with some of the other posters in this thread - you may be attempting to bite off more than you can chew. My smaller practical rig consisting of 4 TH18 and two conventional 2x12/2" reflex boxes is more than sufficient to do a "500 person dance". The bigger rig grew out of doing outdoor events requiring 500 yards of sound throw and 180 degrees coverage. I don't even do that sort of thing anymore. Last time I had it out, I used half of it in a hotel ballroom and damn near blew the roof off of it.
Of course 4 way system (if combine speakers well) is better but more expensive and difficult make.... also is true that 12" midbass horn combine better with 2" driver but my plans of my midbass 15" horn is enough good begin 100db at 80 hz and after 140 hz until 500hz it handles 106db for midlow not bad (at 2 x pi on hornresp) also i have many simple speakers but now i will give them because i want les cabinets longthrow and powerful....
Hi koutrou,
Maybe, take a look here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/258706-study-dipole-cardioid-bass-horn-40.html for some additional inspiration.
Regards,
Maybe, take a look here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/258706-study-dipole-cardioid-bass-horn-40.html for some additional inspiration.
Regards,
Again, there is no way your horn tweeters are going to be able to mate up with a 15" kick horn. You're going to have a huge gap around 500-1000Hz, and/or you're going to wreck your tweeters.
no gap to frecuencly....my mid bass untill 500hz and my mid high 500 hz and up (my midhigh is powerful handles more than 110db from 500hz and recommended also for 500hz crossover from manufacturer....) so no gap.... There are many speakers with crossover to 500hz like Meyer Sound JM-1P , RCF TTP5-A .....
Last edited:
If you use a folded horn for the 15"s, you will not get to 500Hz. 250Hz, maybe.
You could use normal ported boxes for the 15"s and run them higher, but you start to get beaming.
A hornloaded 8" would fill the gap nicely between your compression driver and 15"s. Running compression drivers loud to 500Hz is asking for all kinds of trouble - the air in the horn throat will be a limiting factor at some point, even if the driver can do what you're asking.
Chris
You could use normal ported boxes for the 15"s and run them higher, but you start to get beaming.
A hornloaded 8" would fill the gap nicely between your compression driver and 15"s. Running compression drivers loud to 500Hz is asking for all kinds of trouble - the air in the horn throat will be a limiting factor at some point, even if the driver can do what you're asking.
Chris
You are probably NOT going to get useable response to 500 Hz out of a kick bin, especially with a 15. A straight horn that's 4 feet long (with 2x3 foot mouth)... maybe. Even then directivity at 500 Hz will suck, and it's as big as a sub. Have you seen how big those Inlow hi-fi midbasses are?? With a 12, you *might* get the horn down to a manageable size, you might not. 10's will do ok on the high end (800 Hz is easily possible), but will be challenged to get down to 80.
Go ahead and cross your 2" and 500 Hz at disco sound levels, and see how long it lasts. I've got a stopwatch to time it with, if you like. If you cheat and use a phenolic diaphragm, you'll have the extra fun dealing with the supertweeter and the phasey highs you'll end up with.
Go ahead and cross your 2" and 500 Hz at disco sound levels, and see how long it lasts. I've got a stopwatch to time it with, if you like. If you cheat and use a phenolic diaphragm, you'll have the extra fun dealing with the supertweeter and the phasey highs you'll end up with.
You don't know what you're doing, and are going to wreck a pair of compression diaphrams. But hey, good luck with it!
Nah, he really wants to build up a "three-out-of-four-way" PA system. Or is a megatroll from the speakerplans forum.
@ turbodawg. I would not call him a troll, but I do agree with you that koutrou does not have even the smallest idea what he is doing or try to do! He choses the
Beyma driver cause it has gut a very heavy magnet structure! Because that makes it the most powerfull 21" incher at all! Forget that, its only waste of energy and hopefully not of good drivers!
Beyma driver cause it has gut a very heavy magnet structure! Because that makes it the most powerfull 21" incher at all! Forget that, its only waste of energy and hopefully not of good drivers!
Yes sure only for the magnet see spl 20-100 and after that speak about beyma much better of every 21" driver handles 81db at 20 hz without cabinet when powerful "2000watt AES" b&c 21sw152 handles 65db also has some of the best qts 34 (that means small looses) and bl 28 that means that it is very good for realy low frecuencly 20hz - 40hz but the same time good for medium bass 40hz - 100hz only small problem with my speaker is xmax (10 instead of 15). Most of high power subwoofer are good only for medium bass and not realy low becase have bl more than 32.... read --->
( The BL factor (drive factor), given in Tm (tesla-metres), gives the strength of the motor structure applied to the voice coil. A high drive factor is a precondition for high sensitivity and, at the same time, damps the speaker's self-resonance. If the BL factor is too high, however, bass reproduction will be poor. Where it is too high, the self-resonance will be exaggerated and the pulse response will be poor at low frequencies.
Take any woofer and double the BL product and compare it to the original in a simulated sealed box design. The driver with double the BL has a 6dB advantage in sensitivity but it will role off quicker making it appear to make less bass. This is not completely true, but rather shows how system design often requires going beyond the box and woofer to achieve the SPL goals you need. If the driver has very high BL product it will have very high dampening and impedance. The high impedance reduces the current from the amplifier under the same voltage (gain) and while the driver is extremely efficient, it also pulls less power from our voltage source. The driver with lower BL product will pull more power from the amplifier and displace more air but with lower dampening. )
81dB at 20 Hz without cab??? A qts of 34 means small looses???
One thing is correct, it work well down to really low frequencies, but not in a small enclosure and its by far not really loud! Its a good driver for loud Hifi or Homecinema , when its noit required to work below 25 Hz!
Okay whatever you want to do, do it and you will see what happens. But tell me one thing, when you think you do know anthing better then all that trys to help you, why do you ask then???
Bye the way, there is only one 2" Driver that is usable from 500Hz upward safely in prosound, and that one is not from Beyma! But its your driver and so do what you want!!!
One thing is correct, it work well down to really low frequencies, but not in a small enclosure and its by far not really loud! Its a good driver for loud Hifi or Homecinema , when its noit required to work below 25 Hz!
Okay whatever you want to do, do it and you will see what happens. But tell me one thing, when you think you do know anthing better then all that trys to help you, why do you ask then???
Bye the way, there is only one 2" Driver that is usable from 500Hz upward safely in prosound, and that one is not from Beyma! But its your driver and so do what you want!!!
Yes that is a problem that it is very big (230 litres) but handles at 470hz 107.9 db to hornresp with 2 x pi. If you are true and i will burn at 500hz my high mid driver, so why manufacturer recommended it for 500hz and why meyer sound JM-1P (http://www.proaudiosystems.co.uk/me...d6e5fb8d27136e95/m/e/meyer-sound-jm1p-1_1.jpg) and RCF TTP5-A (http://www.rcf.it/image/image_galle...f-09fca142f400&groupId=216492&t=1360141234550) do the same ? Just tell me to know and if it is true i will cross them higher at 800hz (that means of course no midbass horn) do you think this is better ?
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.