Hello all,
I am trying to upgrade my set of loudpseakers, and would need a little help on the crossover design.
The system is a 2-way, with Visaton W170S/8 as woofer, and I've chosen SC10/8 as tweeter (also from Visaton).
The total volume of the box is around 42 liters, it's tuned to some 33Hz by the means of a bass reflex port. The baffle size is 79x23.5cm, with 1cm chamfers on all 4 sides.
The crossover point is around 2500Hz.
My problem is that I do not manage to get the off-axis freq response right (without significant dips or peaks).
I know that the woofer/tweeter combination is not the greatest in the world, but I think that there is a possibility to make things better.
Can some of you give me some advice on how the situation could be improved (I am talking about the ~3dB dip at around 1700Hz)?
If I remove the 0.82mH coil from the treble, the horizontal FR seem to improve, but then there will be a huge dip of 8dB on the vertical off-axis FR.
I have attached the Boxsim project, and some frequency response graphs.
I am trying to upgrade my set of loudpseakers, and would need a little help on the crossover design.
The system is a 2-way, with Visaton W170S/8 as woofer, and I've chosen SC10/8 as tweeter (also from Visaton).
The total volume of the box is around 42 liters, it's tuned to some 33Hz by the means of a bass reflex port. The baffle size is 79x23.5cm, with 1cm chamfers on all 4 sides.
The crossover point is around 2500Hz.
My problem is that I do not manage to get the off-axis freq response right (without significant dips or peaks).
I know that the woofer/tweeter combination is not the greatest in the world, but I think that there is a possibility to make things better.
Can some of you give me some advice on how the situation could be improved (I am talking about the ~3dB dip at around 1700Hz)?
If I remove the 0.82mH coil from the treble, the horizontal FR seem to improve, but then there will be a huge dip of 8dB on the vertical off-axis FR.
I have attached the Boxsim project, and some frequency response graphs.
Attachments
Last edited:
Thank you for the answer, but this is exactly my problem here 🙂
If I remove the 0.82mH inductor, then I will get a big 9dB dip on the vertical FR at some 2200 Hz.
Please check the attached picture.
Attachments
Show us the phase of the drivers with the crossover. Usually a good phase alignment for a LR4 crossover (same polarity for both drivers) can be obtained with a 2nd order electrical on the woofer and a 3rd order electrical on the tweeter (for your choice of drivers and crossover point).
Run your simulation with those suggestions:
remove the 0.1mH coil on the woofer network (if you need to shape the drop in frequency consider to add a small resistor instead)
remove the 2.2uF cap in parallel of the tweeter
remove the 0.82mH cap on the tweeter network
use a higher value cap than 3.3uF (15-20uF) on the tweeter network
Ralf
Run your simulation with those suggestions:
remove the 0.1mH coil on the woofer network (if you need to shape the drop in frequency consider to add a small resistor instead)
remove the 2.2uF cap in parallel of the tweeter
remove the 0.82mH cap on the tweeter network
use a higher value cap than 3.3uF (15-20uF) on the tweeter network
Ralf
Have a look here EXPERIENCE V 17 (Fertigbox) - Visaton Diskussionsforum
I would go for simpler crossover.
I would go for simpler crossover.
How much off axis ( horizontally) are you talking about?
Did you use frd and zma files out of Visaton database or
your own?
ct270 is a wellknown small box (around 13 liters) with w170s/sc10.....see post 6:
Cheap Trick/ Günstige LS mit Visaton Chassis - Visaton Diskussionsforum
Cheap Trick/ Günstige LS mit Visaton Chassis - Visaton Diskussionsforum
Hi,
You've got the right simulator but are overcomplicating the x/o.
Look at Zaphs x/o's : zaph|audio
rgds, sreten.
You've got the right simulator but are overcomplicating the x/o.
Look at Zaphs x/o's : zaph|audio
rgds, sreten.
I know this is OT kinda But, I am trying to use a pair of DCM TF250 cabinets that I have laying around. The woofers and tweeters are no longer made. So,
I was thinking of using the Visaton w170-8 and a suitable tweeter. Just looking for a completed design.
I was thinking of using the Visaton w170-8 and a suitable tweeter. Just looking for a completed design.
Hi,
I'd suggest this kit : X-LS Classic kit , great value.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
rgds, sreten.
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Hi Sreten,
Thank you! The X-LS Classic Kit is a great value indeed. I might try it. I really wanted to use the TF250 enclosures. I just hate throwing away a pair good enclosures.😉
Thank you! The X-LS Classic Kit is a great value indeed. I might try it. I really wanted to use the TF250 enclosures. I just hate throwing away a pair good enclosures.😉
My off-axis issue is on the vertical, about 9dB peak.
I've used the driver parameter files from the Boxsim.
I'm now looking to some simpler XO's from some completed designs, but for most of them I see pretty big peaks on the vertical off-axis FR's. In some cases even 20db, for the 30 degrees angle, around 2.5k or so...
I see. I would suggest, for optimal results, making your own measurements
and then simulating a XO filter. Agree with you and others on making simpler
filter.
I have worked with 170 S 4 ohm and Monacor DT 99( very similar to
SC 10) and they are playing nice. Usually a 2nd order on bass and 3rd on
tweeter works well on a flat baffle.
It really pays off to invest in measurement gear which is really not much.
Make sure it sums right on axis between bass and tweeter. More important
is to decide how the plots look like horizontally.
Good luck!
and then simulating a XO filter. Agree with you and others on making simpler
filter.
I have worked with 170 S 4 ohm and Monacor DT 99( very similar to
SC 10) and they are playing nice. Usually a 2nd order on bass and 3rd on
tweeter works well on a flat baffle.
It really pays off to invest in measurement gear which is really not much.
Make sure it sums right on axis between bass and tweeter. More important
is to decide how the plots look like horizontally.
Good luck!
I had reviewed the xover design, and went back to 2nd order for bass, 3rd order for the treble, and I must say that it's comparable to the complicated one 🙂
The coil for the woofer needed to be raised a bit, and it seems that the response of the whole system is pretty flat (or at least within 2dB, which is ok).
Please check and comment on it!
The coil for the woofer needed to be raised a bit, and it seems that the response of the whole system is pretty flat (or at least within 2dB, which is ok).
Please check and comment on it!
Attachments
This filter appears to produce more consistent plots and I would
say a very solid foundation for good sound. Choose a bass inductor
with less dcr and then give it a shot. You can always play with tweeter
level for final fine tuning.
say a very solid foundation for good sound. Choose a bass inductor
with less dcr and then give it a shot. You can always play with tweeter
level for final fine tuning.
I don't like that deep tank notch on the bass coil, it'll play hell with phase alignment. Which is the bit that most folks plain don't understand. And I think you'll need a bigger 2.5mH bass coil too. Otherwise it'll shout too much in the midrange.
I use similar to the circuit below. It sounds good.
I use similar to the circuit below. It sounds good.
Attachments
I've updated the xover even further, and I am pretty much happy now with how it sounds.
Now, is that ~2kHz xover frequency all right? Some guy I've been talking to said that it's way too low for SC10N.
What else could be done to improve this system with these drivers?
Now, is that ~2kHz xover frequency all right? Some guy I've been talking to said that it's way too low for SC10N.
What else could be done to improve this system with these drivers?
