At listening position you can easily get flat to at least 30 if you plan this out a little. If you're going through all the work and money, why not go as low as possible with as much power as your dollar will get?
If you're planning on being 3dB down at 40 I wouldn't even call that a subwoofer unless you're talking about a computer speaker monitor setup from Kmart or something.
I'm just trying to help you get your money's worth but it seems that you resist most all of what I say. Just do what you want to do then and let us know how it turns out I guess.
If you're planning on being 3dB down at 40 I wouldn't even call that a subwoofer unless you're talking about a computer speaker monitor setup from Kmart or something.
I'm just trying to help you get your money's worth but it seems that you resist most all of what I say. Just do what you want to do then and let us know how it turns out I guess.
The Low Pass Adjustment (also known as "high cut") filter has a range from 30-200 Hz, no frequency response is listed in the Dayton SPA500 user manual.
The parametric EQ is capable of boosts and cuts down to 18 Hz, -14.5 dB (so it could be "kind of" used as a High Pass) or boost of +6 dB.
Attachments
Yes, someone made a cut and paste error.
As you can see in the Dayton SPA500 user manual, The Low Pass Adjustment (also known as "high cut") filter has a range from 30-200 Hz, no frequency response is listed, but it would make no sense to have a parametric filter have response below the amp's frequency response, nor would it make sense to limit a sub's frequency response to 30 Hz.
Dayton's engineers don't write the copy.
Proofreading is becoming a lost art .
Art
Information floating around indicates the SPA500 has a 3rd order high pass filter at 18Hz. That should play well with most subs and not cut out too much on a lot of music; this project being no exception. I snagged the attached model from CSS to show about what can be expected with this plate amp in this project.
Much better than the pair of Parts Express specials I picked up years back. Those "subwoofer" plate amps were high passed around 30Hz.
Attachments
Information floating around indicates the SPA500 has a 3rd order high pass filter at 18Hz. That should play well with most subs and not cut out too much on a lot of music; this project being no exception. I snagged the attached model from CSS to show about what can be expected with this plate amp in this project.
Much better than the pair of Parts Express specials I picked up years back. Those "subwoofer" plate amps were high passed around 30Hz.
The graph looks indeed very good. What were the drivers again?
That is for the Creative Sound Solutions SDX12 Subduction (Info there, site here).
I was just using that particular driver as an example, but, to be honest, were I shopping for a current production 12" sub that particular driver would be one of the first I'd take a look at. I've not had a chance to hear them personally, but those who have them have nothing but praise from what I've seen. Triple shorting rings, 28mm one-way xmax, low inductance, a sexy set of T/S parameters... overall, it looks pretty good. That it's an XBL^2 sub leaves me no doubt that it's likely a good one as experience has made me a big fan of that motor topology. (XBL^2 allows a driver to have the sound quality advantages of being underhung while being among the highest excursion drivers out there, though at the expense of efficiency.)
There's also a 10" version, the SDX10, but I haven't run across as many projects using it.
Both drivers fall into the price range you were considering, looks like, $169 each for the 10" and $519 for a bundled pair of 12"s.
If you're interested, CSS has a manufacturer's forum here where you might be able to find more information and opinions from folks who've had ears-on experience with the drivers.
Another option to add to the list.
Thanks for explaining XBL^2 for us noobs, I had seen it mentioned but wasn't sure what it was
Underhung... That's where the voicecoil is shorter than the voicecoil gap, isn't it? with overhung having a voicecoil that is longer than the voicecoil gap??
Mid-range is were we live, mid-range should be no-compromise. Everything else can be attenuated and/or equalized.
The fundamental question remains: is there such a thing as a musical subwoofer in a small sealed box? In order for a woofer to work in a sealed box it must have a very stiff suspension (Dayton Audio - OK) But at low volume stiff supension means that the woofer is controlled more by the suspension rather then by the magnet. So it is not very likely to sound good at low volume (low frequency noise generator) and will sound "musical" only when played really loud. For a musical subwoofer it is desirable that the cone is controlled by the magnet and not by the suspension. So you want a soft suspension. The Dayton woofer is impressive in the sense that it has excursion and low distortion. But it is not promissing to be a musical subwoofer - just a low distortion low frequency noise generator.
After typing such drivel the fingers could no longer hold back...
WOW, that is funny! SERIOUSLY funny.
Have you ever heard a good subwoofer played on its own?
All there is down there is "noise", yet when combined with some content above 80Hz, that "noise" becomes part of the music.
A low-distortion low-frequency noise generator is precisely what we're aiming at.
Chris
PS - stiff suspension doesn't automatically mean bad at low volumes.
PPS - a small sealed box will dominate the suspension stiffness every time.
I've found that some high power woofers sounded quite boomy or drone-like at low listening levels. They sound like they can only thump and burr and otherwise lacked dynamics and detail at low listening levels (55-70dB) that other lower power types did much better. I only wonder if Edgindin is maybe onto the right track but mistaken in the parameters where he places the blame?
Which woofers in what size/type enclosure with what amp/EQ? You didn't happen to take any measurements at low vs higher spl levels to see what difference in sound you were hearing did you?
It's been some years since then, so I don't recall them offhand but they were always professional audio woofers of 8"-15" and had very firm suspension. The sound could be described as muting of lower-level parts of the music or media at low levels, but very good up at levels that are too high for my own listening. At the time I contemplated it being some sort of compliance non-linearity where the suspension was stronger than the motor force. I couldn't verify that, since it was a time when getting audio measurement gear was a little more difficult. I also didn't take any measurements at those times, primarily because I was a teenager and in my early 20's at points in time when I made the casual observations, and most people wouldn't have paid attention to a younger person into audio. Should I encounter it again, I think that it may warrant a variety of tests and spectra. I just haven't bought any new large or high power woofers in some time.
Addendum: I have to make a correction and add to my post; I did hear the effect again, a couple years ago I heard it come from a Velodyne 15" subwoofer when it was used at low playback levels.
Addendum: I have to make a correction and add to my post; I did hear the effect again, a couple years ago I heard it come from a Velodyne 15" subwoofer when it was used at low playback levels.
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