Terry,
Take your Gainclone and compare that to one of the Slewmasters and I hope then there is a very distinct difference in sound. If you can't hear the difference between the opamp based amplifier and one of the Slew's I would be very surprised and start questioning the setup.
Best to you,
Steven
Take your Gainclone and compare that to one of the Slewmasters and I hope then there is a very distinct difference in sound. If you can't hear the difference between the opamp based amplifier and one of the Slew's I would be very surprised and start questioning the setup.
Best to you,
Steven
Hi BYRTT,
I used to do the plug/unplug thing in the past. I also tried using two preamps so I could switch one off and the other on quickly in hopes of comparing. It wasn't until I built the A/B setup, so I could instantly switch between amps that I was able to see that most all of the super low THD amps are basically a straight wire with gain. Yes, I can hear a difference when comparing a lessor amp like the little chip amp I built and you can hear a difference between the lower and higher powered amps once the lower powered one starts running out of steam but for the most part, that is louder than I would ever care to listen in my room. Perhaps in a very large room or outside you might need that much volume.
You may be right about a "clean tube amp" I don't know, I've never listened to one. The only tube amps I am familiar with are the many guitar amps I've owned over the years and believe me, it was the way they colored the tone that made them popular, not how clean they were.
Blessings, eerry
I used to do the plug/unplug thing in the past. I also tried using two preamps so I could switch one off and the other on quickly in hopes of comparing. It wasn't until I built the A/B setup, so I could instantly switch between amps that I was able to see that most all of the super low THD amps are basically a straight wire with gain. Yes, I can hear a difference when comparing a lessor amp like the little chip amp I built and you can hear a difference between the lower and higher powered amps once the lower powered one starts running out of steam but for the most part, that is louder than I would ever care to listen in my room. Perhaps in a very large room or outside you might need that much volume.
You may be right about a "clean tube amp" I don't know, I've never listened to one. The only tube amps I am familiar with are the many guitar amps I've owned over the years and believe me, it was the way they colored the tone that made them popular, not how clean they were.
Blessings, eerry
I try to stay clear of the subjective business, but I suggest we reach a point where a good amplifier simply sounds like a good amplifier should - it doesn't have a sound of its own. It just does what we want, amplification.
+1.....why they should sound different escapes me, to me an amp that does not hum, hiss, nor distort at listening levels is an amp worth listening to....😉
The question then becomes if all the amplifiers with all of the different input sections sound the same why bother with making them all? It makes no sense if there is truly no audible difference. In the beginning OS was talking about differences between the high frequency output and low frequency output that made him favor one over the other. So what is it, do all of these amps have the same bandwidth and frequency response or are there really differences between them. I seem to remember that Thimios and his freinds did hear some differences between input sections.
why bother? because were are diy'ers.....
and the joy of learning as one builds is priceless..
there is no argument that different amps can sound differently under different situations.....
but can we not just listen to the music instead?
and the joy of learning as one builds is priceless..
there is no argument that different amps can sound differently under different situations.....
but can we not just listen to the music instead?
When I was an engineer (not an audio engineer), I made an amplifier after working hour at my lab. One of my friends notice the difference of my amp, after I making some modification, but he didn't see my work. He was at the same room but can not see me. I notice the difference after he ask me. But my other friends can not notice the difference 😱
at high volume levels a classB and classAB will sound the same, but listen to them at low watts and you will find the difference...😉
Except that the optimally biased amplifier, at high levels, should have noticeably less distortion than the class AB, as it will be now overbiased once it has left class A.
yes...my experience with solid state....😉
that is why i tend to like tubes....😀 but this is another story....
Hey guys, how about one of you building a good A/B setup so you can actually hear what I'm talking about. I know they measure differently, I have a sine generator and a scope. What I am telling you is that if you blind A/B two of these extremely low THD amps you will be amazed at how similar they sound. If you don't want a subjective listening analysis from me, please don't ask for one. I built the amps, I built the A/B setup and I have some really nice speakers to listen through. I have been a musician and singer for the past 50 years and have a home recording setup as well. I may not be an EE but know what music is supposed to sound like.
Blessings, Terry
Blessings, Terry
that is okey Terry, be happy with what you have and enjoy the music always...
Terry,
I do believe you and that is why I wonder why build all the different versions once you have established that we are below the audible level that we can tell them apart. I know about it is diy so some can't help it but originally the test was to see if there was a real audible difference between the CFA and VFA versions. Now that you have established well enough for me that you can't hear a difference I would just look for which input sections do the job with the lowest cost and least complexity for actual use. I'll have to decide between one or the other for the final implementation and will probably settle on either the CFA-XH or one of the simpler VFA versions. Thanks for your comments.
I do believe you and that is why I wonder why build all the different versions once you have established that we are below the audible level that we can tell them apart. I know about it is diy so some can't help it but originally the test was to see if there was a real audible difference between the CFA and VFA versions. Now that you have established well enough for me that you can't hear a difference I would just look for which input sections do the job with the lowest cost and least complexity for actual use. I'll have to decide between one or the other for the final implementation and will probably settle on either the CFA-XH or one of the simpler VFA versions. Thanks for your comments.
It might well be that the OPS section of an amplifier influences the end sound far more than any of us had thought.
Well one thing is for sure, the output stage presents us with the most ugliest distortion in the form of crossover distortion or gm doubling. Going class A is the only way to avoid that, so perhaps for truly fair comparisons you'd need to bias the amplifier into class A. One difference between the input stages though is probably how good they are at linearising the output stage via feedback, so biasing into class A might not give a true representation to which IPS is actually better for normal use.
Of course you could take from this that one input stage is better for a class A amplifier, as much as the CFA amps are better for things other than bass, at least froma technical point of view.
Of course you could take from this that one input stage is better for a class A amplifier, as much as the CFA amps are better for things other than bass, at least froma technical point of view.
isn't the output stage emitter followers, where it has only current gain and no voltage gain and that there is inherent 100% local feedback?
Of course Terry. Listen very carefully, I shall say 'zis only once! 😀
I don't need A/B switching setup because it is completely wrong way to evaluate sound quality of a component/system. Switching among two amplifiers interrupts music flow in a way you'll never know how certain detail heard on one amplifier would sound in a previous connected amplifier, because this detail appears only once and it cannot be repeated. A/B switching brings more confusion than real evaluation.
Correct way of evaluating components is to listen certain part of the track, lets say 30 s to 1 min or so and then listen exactly the same part on the other component. We can remember this kind of sequencing even if there's a minute or more between the component switch. But this kind of test brings integrity and a lot more of our involving in that part of the test track. And complete method of evaluation goes through 1-5 or more completely different tracks to get even more impression about sound quality.
A/B switching is for amateurs.
