"serious listeners"Probably less "engineering' as dedicated work in making the best use of a likely Very limited working budget.Nevertheless, it is interesting that Alan Shaw of Harbeth finds cheaper MKT polyester and ferrite tweeter coils acceptable in his highly rated designs. Audio heresy, or penny pinching or just good engineering?
Remember that MFG products, in our civilization typically earn the maker 20%
of the retail price. From that number; materials, labor, buildings, packaging, shipping, taxes AND profits are derived.
Now... work backwards from that and try to guess just what part materials costs comprise.
Damned little as a wild eyed guess
~35 years of beating myself about the head and face with MKT and MKP capacitors, tells me that MKP hurts less than MKT, and leaves the least amount of scars.
If I find an MKT capacitor in something that I own, I get rid of it (the capacitor, that is).
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Actually, there is. Lots of it good sir. So we won't bother to 'acquiesce to your demands'.
You are on the short side of this equation, on the empty side of the table, here.
It's on your plate, you being on the short side, 'n all.....
Go get some solid evidence that MKT is somehow superior, bring it back and beat us into submission with it.
Good luck with that.
I agree. In that some claims are possibly way off the deep end, in some cases. Not many, but at least a few.
Everyone draws a line in the sand. Some do it at $3 capacitors, some do it at $300 capacitors. Never mind the $1k caps. (yes they do exist...)
at $300 each, we really are getting to the laws of diminishing returns. In design, I can hear a difference with the $300 caps, but I also question if I might gain more quality with some minor changes elsewhere...as we really are getting to the nitty-gritties at that point.
I have no qualms about $300 capacitors and would gladly and happily use them, but I'd be dang sure that the rest of the given device is perfected as it can be, beforehand.
And importantly, conversely..just because there may be a bunch of $300 capacitors in a given unit, one should not infer that it is a perfected unit, before those $300 capacitors were employed.
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Yes, we have come to agree that capacitor "quality" matters in filters.
As we came to that agreement we discovered that coupling capacitors that have their turn over frequency (F-3dB & single pole) well outside the audio frequency range do not rely so much on these same "quality attributes".
Where we may have some disagreement is what "quality attributes" (capacitor parameters?) are required for adequate/best audio performance in each duty.
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So lets see it then..............no? Ahhhh just as I thought, nothing to see here. Subjective say-so isn't proof.
MKP capacitors generally have ten times lower loss factors than MKTs. Thus they are closer to an ideal capacitor and are widely recommended for passive loudspeaker filters. That's a basic fact which is well known in the rest of the world.
Capacitors : Everything about Capacitors | TokoSpeaker, Toko Speaker, Car Audio, Audio Mobil, Speaker, Tweeter, Midrange, Subwoofer, Capacitor, Resistor, Inductor, Audio
Types of capacitor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Attachment: Extract from Wikipedia.
Attachments
Numbers are all I see there, no comparisons of "sound quality" No ABX, No SBT NO DBT no proof of sound differences at all.
Oh and if links are what you like then try this one http://sound.westhost.com/articles/capacitors.htm#7.0
Oh and if links are what you like then try this one http://sound.westhost.com/articles/capacitors.htm#7.0
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So you don't have any examples to show me.
I already know about ESR and how electrolytic caps that have higher ESR can alter the amplitude but by taking that into account, the ESR doesn't matter if you design that into the finished product. Would not the same apply to MKT caps then? I highly doubt that the ESR of MKT caps are high enough to bother with. That only leaves the DF which is related to ESR.
Some people in this thread are saying that MKP is always sounding better than MKT with zero examples showing how so.
A search online brought up nothing about Vance Dickason or Joseph D'Appolito concerning capacitor ESR or DF....which books are you referring to?
I already know about ESR and how electrolytic caps that have higher ESR can alter the amplitude but by taking that into account, the ESR doesn't matter if you design that into the finished product. Would not the same apply to MKT caps then? I highly doubt that the ESR of MKT caps are high enough to bother with. That only leaves the DF which is related to ESR.
Some people in this thread are saying that MKP is always sounding better than MKT with zero examples showing how so.
A search online brought up nothing about Vance Dickason or Joseph D'Appolito concerning capacitor ESR or DF....which books are you referring to?
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A good start will be Loudspeaker Design Cookbook and Testing Loudspeakers. They will walk you through how crossover transfer functions are calculated, then you'll have the mental tools necessary to calculate the acoustic effects starting with the electrical numbers.
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