I am 100% open to data that shows that there is no correlation between brand choice and quality. Why not sponsor a test in Linear Audio by collecting donations. This would help offset any cost for both supplies and time and would also increase the possiblity of it actually happening. Considering the amount of levied arguments on the subject, I am somewhat surprised that one does not exist. Perhaps it does and I am unaware of it.
Until this happens, both sides are only levying opinions, regardless of theory or simulation. Of course the second the test was conducted, there would be allegations of a lack of hearing ablilty on the part of the listeners or poorly thouguht out and conducted test, depending on the outcome, of course. Perhaps this is why it has not been done.
I love this forum.
Until this happens, both sides are only levying opinions, regardless of theory or simulation. Of course the second the test was conducted, there would be allegations of a lack of hearing ablilty on the part of the listeners or poorly thouguht out and conducted test, depending on the outcome, of course. Perhaps this is why it has not been done.
I love this forum.
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I've enjoyed the discussion of capacitors this afternoon. 🙂
We've discovered that we can be either right-brained or left-brained depending on how you see the girl dancing:
I happen to see the girl dancing clockwise, but that is simply because I'm a bit of a space cadet and not logical at all...😱
But for all that, IMO, the Space Cadets are the people who know about MUSICAL! 😀
When I get a crossover or drivers wrong, it actually makes me feel physically sick.
My lovely Mum has a cochlear hearing implant. She's the oldest woman (95 years old!) in the UK to have one. She tells me that when she is tired, it gets awfully hard to hear right. Her brain gets incapable of correcting the faults in hearing that makes it all work.
You see, stereo is just an illusion of reality. The brain is just fooling itself. You know the difference really. I don't think capacitors make any difference at all. It's probably more to do with the drivers. I prefer cones to domes when I'm tired. They sound better. That's it really. 🙂
We've discovered that we can be either right-brained or left-brained depending on how you see the girl dancing:
I happen to see the girl dancing clockwise, but that is simply because I'm a bit of a space cadet and not logical at all...😱
But for all that, IMO, the Space Cadets are the people who know about MUSICAL! 😀
When I get a crossover or drivers wrong, it actually makes me feel physically sick.
My lovely Mum has a cochlear hearing implant. She's the oldest woman (95 years old!) in the UK to have one. She tells me that when she is tired, it gets awfully hard to hear right. Her brain gets incapable of correcting the faults in hearing that makes it all work.
You see, stereo is just an illusion of reality. The brain is just fooling itself. You know the difference really. I don't think capacitors make any difference at all. It's probably more to do with the drivers. I prefer cones to domes when I'm tired. They sound better. That's it really. 🙂
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Once again, System7. Music and pole.....Please. I bet then you dont care which direction she is turning.
Disclaimer:
I am happily married and in no way is the above request an endorsement of any lewd or lascivious behavior. You should all be ashamed for turning an art form into a base form of entertainment.
Disclaimer:
I am happily married and in no way is the above request an endorsement of any lewd or lascivious behavior. You should all be ashamed for turning an art form into a base form of entertainment.
buzzforb, I can DIG what you saying. That may be because I am right-brained. 🙂
BB King never explained it better, than with this superb rendition of "The Thrill is Gone". Has anyone ever thrown away a plectrum with such abandon?
B. B. King - The Thrill Is Gone (Live at Montreux 1993) - YouTube
I've gotta be honest, and say I don't know what I'm talking about at this point, But it's been fun.
BB King never explained it better, than with this superb rendition of "The Thrill is Gone". Has anyone ever thrown away a plectrum with such abandon?
B. B. King - The Thrill Is Gone (Live at Montreux 1993) - YouTube
I've gotta be honest, and say I don't know what I'm talking about at this point, But it's been fun.
How is saying that electrolytic caps have a higher ESR than a film cap a belief? How is it also a belief if one says, if a loudspeaker is designed to function correctly with the higher ESR of said lytics caps, that switching to low ESR caps will cause the loudspeaker to function incorrectly, as was intended by the original designer? It isn't.
Beliefs are subjective mumbo jumbo, none of which I have contributed to.
Say what , you get what from what .. 🙄
5th, you must be one of those British code breakers , how the hell you get me accusing you about cap ESR ...
Anyway rummaging thru some old PP caps today looking for parts to make up model -x and ran into something interesting , i will post up graphs when i get off the water ...
5th, you must be one of those British code breakers , how the hell you get me accusing you about cap ESR ...
Anyway rummaging thru some old PP caps today looking for parts to make up model -x and ran into something interesting , i will post up graphs when i get off the water ...
I see the girl changing direction every time I look. So I must be screwed up.🙄
The brains do an incredible job. For years, I have been wearing contacts way lower than the prescription.
Quite interesting about domes vs cones I have not dug much into them, but from from a useful bandwidth point of view, cones generally have more bandwidth.
The brains do an incredible job. For years, I have been wearing contacts way lower than the prescription.
Quite interesting about domes vs cones I have not dug much into them, but from from a useful bandwidth point of view, cones generally have more bandwidth.
The whole thing we've been talking about for the past few hours was SYs comment on cap ESR, ie going from the higher intended ESR of lytics, to the lower unintended ESR of films, adversely affecting the performance of his loudspeakers.
That was his assertion, there was no scientific proof offered to confirm his position , his ESR assertions would be no different than mine saying it was due to a bad cap ....
Seen ...
Seen ...
No, not really. You failed to miss the point. Yes his assertion was that it was the ESR that ruined the sound without proof for or against it either way, but this doesn't matter.
The point being made was that lytics have a higher ESR than film caps, sometimes significantly. This is scientific fact, not an assertion.
He was trying to warn people that sometimes just blinding changing all lytics in a well designed, but otherwise budget loudspeaker, can have quite a detrimental effect on the frequency response and driver integration. This is also scientific fact and not an assertion.
Anything else written in that post should have been largely ignored as it wasn't significant to the point being made.
The point being made was that lytics have a higher ESR than film caps, sometimes significantly. This is scientific fact, not an assertion.
He was trying to warn people that sometimes just blinding changing all lytics in a well designed, but otherwise budget loudspeaker, can have quite a detrimental effect on the frequency response and driver integration. This is also scientific fact and not an assertion.
Anything else written in that post should have been largely ignored as it wasn't significant to the point being made.
The assertion is simple: anyone who spends any time at all thinking about capacitor brands or much of anything about them except the appropriate value for a given circuit and pragmatic concerns (lead strength, lifespan, unit-unit consistency, size, etc.) is somewhere on the auditory spectrum between "incompetent listener" and "functionally deaf." Anyone who lets their imagination run so far ahead of reality probably needs help.
Without having any interest in reading it, probably. If it's an actual peer-reviewed paper that was accepted for publication in JAES then I might change my tune a little bit. If it is, as I suspect, a mere preprint or presentation, nahh, just idiot marketing blather that's actively deleterious to the pursuit of better sound. See Ken Kantor's comments again. They make a lot of sense.
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Certainly true for well-designed budget speakers; the one I learned my lesson on was a bit farther upmarket (a planar magnetic). The ~2dB variation in upper midrange and treble electrical transfer function was pretty easy to measure, so it's not remarkable that it was audible. I have not repeated that mistake; when someone like Ken Kantor or the BBC team designs a speaker, I don't assume that I know better than he. When I design my own speakers, I use the correct capacitor parameters in the CAD inputs.
It was indeed a conference paper. However, take a few minutes to read it. I think a very good scientific effort was done. I don't know if it ever was submitted to the JAES for publication. I think you'll agree with me there simply wasn't enough impressive engineering equations in it to qualify it for JAES publication. 🙄
This is exactly the point I am trying to make. You can say caps sound no different if measuring the same. I can say they do. Without some sort of study, your statement has no more validity than mine.
Until you bring FACTUAL DATA to the table, then all you present is an opinion. A degree in engineering does not make your opinion more valid than someone else. Present a hypothesis and test it, otherwise continue with conjecture.
Here is interesting scenario. TOnight I went o my brothers house to listen to new preamp we are trying. It sounded good, but i would not brag about it to anyone. We had Blue Jean XLR cables going from OPPo105 to balanced preamp. From balanced preamp to J2 clone, we had some diy xlr cables I had made. THey used 22gage copper wire in oversized teflon tubing, braided with the crossing happening about every 1". For ***** and giggles, we switched in a pair Canare Star Quad cables(also by blue Jean) I had for the DIY cables. The difference was immediate and pronounced. Neither one of us said anything, but after finishing the song, I made the comment that I thought it was an improvement. We listened to another couple of songs and agreed that things seemed to have opened up a bit. Very nice result. My poor cables(poorly constructed is more likely) were banished. We then got the wild hair to try another set of the CAnare in place of the Belden. BAM!. Once again, we heard a significant change in the general presentation. It had really opened up at this point. I was both happy and irritated. I dont like the idea of cables changing things, but they did. That being said, I dont plan on spending more money on super expensive XLR cables. I might try MOgami Neglex, as I have heard good things about it in the pro world. As for the other cables, banished for all eternity. BEing a mediocre, uneducated engineer, I went looking for the datasheets. Here they are. Tell em what you think.
THe sound of the preamp, which we has said was good, was being altered quite a bit by the interaction with the cables, both coming in and going out.
http://www.belden.com/techdatas/metric/1800F.pdf
Canare Corp.: Star Quad Microphone Cables: Star Quad Microphone Cable(L-4E6S / L-4E5C)
THe sound of the preamp, which we has said was good, was being altered quite a bit by the interaction with the cables, both coming in and going out.
http://www.belden.com/techdatas/metric/1800F.pdf
Canare Corp.: Star Quad Microphone Cables: Star Quad Microphone Cable(L-4E6S / L-4E5C)
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Yes but I think the point here is that if engineering, science and the specs say they wont sound different, then they probably don't. You don't need to present a hypothesis and factual data to back this up, it's simply the way that our current understanding says that it is.
If however you want to go against the grain then it's up to you to prove otherwise. It is not up to the engineer to prove, time and time again it always seems, his well proven position to be accurate.
If however you want to go against the grain then it's up to you to prove otherwise. It is not up to the engineer to prove, time and time again it always seems, his well proven position to be accurate.
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