Funniest snake oil theories

[fas42]

I note with interest that it is a "system" - the amp and other components will ideally be "Low PE" and carry the low PE Distortion trademark.

Of course it's a "system " - it's an approach to solving a problem - if you want a cake making recipe for getting good sound, lace the plum pudding with plenty of rum ... 🙂

I'd bet that the proprietary processes referred to are not described anywhere - not even hinted at. Which seems odd. I mean, Dolby managed to protect their interests in a distortion limitation system and yet explain the technology behind it. Every other patentable process or technology similarly can be explained clearly and in technically competent language that doesn't rely on vague euphemisms.

I'll bet too - because each thing in itself will be straightforward, easily copied as a technique. Those who manage to wheedle it out of them will be able to freely wander off, muttering "Thanks, suckaaah ...!!"

 

[marce]

That part is done by the listener's brain ...


No, nothing is added to the signal, something is removed - and that's the excess noise, distortion injected while the signal travels through the electronics. Of course, if you're confident that all electronics processing contributes zero audible artifacts to the sound, well then, I've got a bridge to sell you - shaped a bit like a coathanger ...

Prefer it to be done by the equipment, present the music correctly.

The second paragraph I am getting a bit sick of hearing...its a hand waving statement that is getting to me a lot, i never said any such thing, i have spent years of my life working on system where auditability and hearing protection are critical, i am aware of what distortions electronic systems can add. You cannot strip noise from a signal, it looks exactly like a signal, you can limit the amount of noise a system adds to a signal, but audible noise and an audible signal are the same. The claim is that MP3s sound like uncompressed audio, therefore something has to be added to pad out the sound, noise. If you removed the noise the MP3s presentation would be even more starker and noticeable as compressed audio. That's how the universe works, that's how physics works.
To differentiate between noise and signal we have to evoke Maxwell's Demons, and they really don't exist apart from some way out Audio components marketing BS.

 

[marce]

Of course it's a "system " - it's an approach to solving a problem - if you want a cake making recipe for getting good sound, lace the plum pudding with plenty of rum ... 🙂


I'll bet too - because each thing in itself will be straightforward, easily copied as a technique. Those who manage to wheedle it out of them will be able to freely wander off, muttering "Thanks, suckaaah ...!!"

Its BS....nothing more.

 

[jneutron]

I'm not sure I understand why? Timing differences between channels, from what I understand of your posts, is a function of the difference in arrival time of different frequencies in the speaker wires determined by the impedance of the wires. I believe your test for this being to change one speaker wire's impedance significantly & observe the central image shift (if any) when the same signal is fed into both channels. The IQ test can be run at any frequency & is designed to measure timing differences of microseconds & lower. I can't see the need for a music signal - in fact I'd imagine that it over-complicates the measurement problem.

In principle, I totally agree. But in the world of audio, nothing is steady state. His test is good for only one aspect, whereas the issue is far more complex.

Jim's test appears to be a simple phasor type test, I believe it would work just as well using two sines with zero crossing detection, assuming amplitude is normalized. The problem I see is what happens when two frequencies are present. For example, a 50 hz carrier with a 5Khz rider. Every 20 milliseconds, the output current is fed from an opposite rail, so internal chassis currents are taking a different path. A bad star setup or wiring layout changes the e/m scene. If the simple class B design has a different phase shift for the hf based on output quadrant voltage/current, Jim's technique is not designed to look at it.

But it is a good technique.

I didn't think this related to grounds loops but rather transmission line considerations at audio frequencies & the possible affects of line impedance?

For IC's, the input impedance of the load is relatively constant. T-line considerations only come into play when the load impedance swings wildly, like a speaker.

How do the "IEC inlet filters with earth line choke" (e.g. Schaffner FN9222E ) get used? for data see http://schaffner.com/en/products/da...e-iec-inlet-filter-with-earth-line-choke.html

From the looks of the datasheet, it seems they are only useful for rf filtering. Since they are listed under a few NRTL's, they are certainly safe and useful. But I was thinking only about audio frequencies.

I recall one choke that was 4 millihenries at low levels, and saturated like crazy at the ampere level because the ferrite was very small. In principle, that would fit the need quite well. But I do not think it is approved in the USA for use in the safety bonding circuit yet.

I think the funniest snake oil theory is: "You can trust your ears".

For myself, I do indeed trust my ears. Equipment specs are generally made on a test bench with test equipment designed to eliminate ground loops, whereas in the field it is not.

But if my ears tell me something is different or amiss, I just won't assume it's some new physics principle at work, line grain boundaries or directionality.

jn

 

[DavidL]

It sounds to me like you're just waiting for that magic bullet to arrive, that will fix everything up, without you putting any effort into it - well, guess what, it ain't gonna happen ...

Hahahahahaha oh my. So now I'm the one waiting for the "magic bullet"😕 Nice way to spin things Frank 🙄
I think you are the one that searches for magic bullets.
Where or where have I ever said that?
You refuse to accept that acoustic/speakers will have a much larger impact on sound quality than piddling around with cheap electronics, so be it.

 

[DavidL]

Well said, 42.

Yeah he really said a lot 🙄
A lot of broken record repeat........repeat.......repeat.
Not surprised that you agree with him.

 

[DavidL]

Now back on topic NEW Product Release: UEF Tuning Circuits | Synergistic Research

So even though Synergistic Research claims to make products that drastically improves *insert latest snake oil BS audio term here*, they find a need to introduce further BS snake oil products to make their already current BS snake oil products sound even so so so much better!

Yeah right.😛

Really loved "Joe A" (I'm sure these are all real customers uh huh) statement "What S.R. is doing is mind boggling. Cumulative Cumulative Cumulative!!!"

At least he got that part correct, BS sure does tend to accumulate at SR.

 

[john curl]

I would like to make a point of view here. I essentially agree with 42. He is defending the experience of numerous audiophiles and many successful manufacturers. I'm not talking about big money makers like Bose, HK or Dolby, who actually have a cynical undertone in their philosophy, but successful audio designs like the early vacuum tube Marantz, some JBL speakers, etc. These are 'keepers' because they were designed and built with everything that the designers knew as to what may or does make a successful audio product. You will often find that when we make the product of the decade or some such, that we throw years of experience of both ourselves and every other successful designer that we can learn from, use the best passive and active devices that we can buy, and build each device with TLC or tender loving care, often to the point where we eventually go broke, because we just cannot charge enough for our efforts. This happened to Saul Marantz (when he owned Marantz), me with Vendetta Research, and a number of other manufacturers. It is a 'labor of love' rather than gross profit, and we pay the price, BUT it is worth it, IF you want to be respected over the vast majority of manufacturers making a similar device, such as a preamp, power amp, tuner, etc.
The key to success of this type is to throw everything at the design, seriously attempting to leave nothing out. Perhaps, some things could be left out, but which things? That is the dilemma.

 

[marce]

TESLA LE Series: Overview | Synergistic Research

If these things are voicing your system

The new TESLA LE speaker cables and interconnects feature the ability to change the voicing of your system via three different Active Shielding circuits, called “Enigma Bullets”. Each circuit features a different sonic characteristic:

• Silver Module = Open and airy
• Black Module = Warm and rich
• Grey Module = A hybrid of both the Black and Silver

then they must be adding something to the signal, anything added to the signal by definition is noise...further if we want true fidelity shouldn't the sound be neutral, neither adding or subtracting from the signal.
Oh they do have a pretty blue LED, of course personally I hate blue leds too bright and irritating....


Westlake ought to get together with Synergistic I am sure between them they could create the ultimate BS, because all Westlakes stuff is the finest BS....

 

[marce]

I would like to make a point of view here. I essentially agree with 42. He is defending the experience of numerous audiophiles and many successful manufacturers. I'm not talking about big money makers like Bose, HK or Dolby, who actually have a cynical undertone in their philosophy, but successful audio designs like the early vacuum tube Marantz, some JBL speakers, etc. These are 'keepers' because they were designed and built with everything that the designers knew as to what may or does make a successful audio product. You will often find that when we make the product of the decade or some such, that we throw years of experience of both ourselves and every other successful designer that we can learn from, use the best passive and active devices that we can buy, and build each device with TLC or tender loving care, often to the point where we eventually go broke, because we just cannot charge enough for our efforts. This happened to Saul Marantz (when he owned Marantz), me with Vendetta Research, and a number of other manufacturers. It is a 'labor of love' rather than gross profit, and we pay the price, BUT it is worth it, IF you want to be respected over the vast majority of manufacturers making a similar device, such as a preamp, power amp, tuner, etc.
The key to success of this type is to throw everything at the design, seriously attempting to leave nothing out. Perhaps, some things could be left out, but which things? That is the dilemma.

The badly done to designers suffering for their art...violins at the ready.

 

[john curl]

I'm happy, how about you?

 

[Charles Darwin]

TESLA LE Series: Overview | Synergistic Research

If these things are voicing your system


then they must be adding something to the signal, anything added to the signal by definition is noise...further if we want true fidelity shouldn't the sound be neutral, neither adding or subtracting from the signal.
Oh they do have a pretty blue LED, of course personally I hate blue leds too bright and irritating....


Westlake ought to get together with Synergistic I am sure between them they could create the ultimate BS, because all Westlakes stuff is the finest BS....

It could be a cutting eq.
Reduce bass = open, airy
reduce treble = warm, rich
reduce mids = combination of the above

 

[cowboy99]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vmipf5jx3mxt24c/BigSnake.jpg

Latest snake tales may be true. Seems the big ones have adapted, by Not sounding off with the rattle tail thus increasing their danger.
Nothing to due with us.

They survive to this size by avoiding the feral hogs that love 'em & just go beserk hearing one rattle.
Moral is: Hell with the snake, beware of hungry 400lb Hog.
Question is:...this ole boy put his beer down scared of snake, or after thinking....hog

 

[DavidL]

TESLA LE Series: Overview | Synergistic Research

If these things are voicing your system


then they must be adding something to the signal, anything added to the signal by definition is noise...further if we want true fidelity shouldn't the sound be neutral, neither adding or subtracting from the signal.
Oh they do have a pretty blue LED, of course personally I hate blue leds too bright and irritating....


Westlake ought to get together with Synergistic I am sure between them they could create the ultimate BS, because all Westlakes stuff is the finest BS....

"TESLA Cables allow you to hear deeper into recordings with detail that’s transparent and non-fatiguing. In fact starting at the TESLA LE Accelerator interconnect and TESLA LE Accelerator speaker cable level, TESLA LE Cables outperform every cable we have ever pitted them against regardless of price."

Nothing quite like "proof" like that! I mean just because it's the same people who make the product that does the testing doesn't mean they wouldn't be honest now would they? 😉

 

[TheGimp]

They are honest as long as they actually believe what they are saying.

Delusion: Psychiatry. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion.

 

[tvrgeek]

I would like to make a point of view here. I essentially agree with 42. He is defending the experience of numerous audiophiles and many successful manufacturers. I'm not talking about big money makers like Bose, HK or Dolby, who actually have a cynical undertone in their philosophy, but successful audio designs like the early vacuum tube Marantz, some JBL speakers, etc. These are 'keepers' because they were designed and built with everything that the designers knew as to what may or does make a successful audio product. You will often find that when we make the product of the decade or some such, that we throw years of experience of both ourselves and every other successful designer that we can learn from, use the best passive and active devices that we can buy, and build each device with TLC or tender loving care, often to the point where we eventually go broke, because we just cannot charge enough for our efforts. This happened to Saul Marantz (when he owned Marantz), me with Vendetta Research, and a number of other manufacturers. It is a 'labor of love' rather than gross profit, and we pay the price, BUT it is worth it, IF you want to be respected over the vast majority of manufacturers making a similar device, such as a preamp, power amp, tuner, etc.
The key to success of this type is to throw everything at the design, seriously attempting to leave nothing out. Perhaps, some things could be left out, but which things? That is the dilemma.

If I remember my audio folklore, was not the "secret" of Dynaco, knowing what to leave out and still hit the target market? This is probably even more difficult than designing a superb product. Best done by the engineer, not the business office.

 

[john curl]

Dyna (tubes) was very successful, because they started with good tubes and transformer, and they did the best with as little of other parts that they could get away with. However, they CAN be improved with better power supplies and even better topology. However, FOR THE PRICE, they were essentially unbeatable in their day.

 

[Brian Oshman]

I would like to make a point of view here. I essentially agree with 42. He is defending the experience of numerous audiophiles and many successful manufacturers. I'm not talking about big money makers like Bose, HK or Dolby, who actually have a cynical undertone in their philosophy, but successful audio designs like the early vacuum tube Marantz, some JBL speakers, etc. These are 'keepers' because they were designed and b8uilt with everything that the designers knew as to what may or does make a successful audio product. You will often find that when we make the product of the decade or some such, that we throw years of experience of both ourselves and every other successful designer that we can learn from, use the best passive and active devices that we can buy, and build each device with TLC or tender loving care, often to the point where we eventually go broke, because we just cannot charge enough for our efforts. This happened to Saul Marantz (when he owned Marantz), me with Vendetta Research, and a number of other manufacturers. It is a 'labor of love' rather than gross profit, and we pay the price, BUT it is worth it, IF you want to be respected over the vast majority of manufacturers making a similar device, such as a preamp, power amp, tuner, etc.
The key to success of this type is to throw everything at the design, seriously attempting to leave nothing out. Perhaps, some things could be left out, but which things? That is the dilemma.

HK and JBL are the same company. 🙄

 

[john curl]

Not originally.

 

[vacuphile]

Not originally.

But, JBL only started to make speakers right after old Harman bought the shop and brought Floyd Toole in to drive the voodoo engineering out.