Well exactly, I still don't see how changing amps would present any kind of problem.
I mean I'm running my speakers 4way active using a single 8x4mm^2 cable with speakon connectors on the speaker end and whatever the amps want on their side. Changing any or all of the 4 stereo amps would take a matter of minutes were they not fitted to a 19" rack.
ahh, single connector at speaker only, and multiple connectors at amp end
yeah, ok
Thanks for the thoughts, chaps, all very useful to consider.
I can see the 8-pole speakon is less common than more standard home amp connectors, although of course the amp would still be much easier to swap than if I'd actually built it in so I guess its all relative.
Cheers
kev
I can see the 8-pole speakon is less common than more standard home amp connectors, although of course the amp would still be much easier to swap than if I'd actually built it in so I guess its all relative.
Cheers
kev
Castle Creations | CC Bullet Connectors
Work better than speakons, with far lower contact resistance. Use them for 3 phase power on RC aircraft with power well over 2000w. Simply insulate with heatshrink and or press fit to enclosure wall.
The capacitance is negligible with cat5/6 with far less surface area to reduce skin resistance. I'll dig up the research paper if I have the time. Perhaps you should read up a little on the subject befor disclaiming it's a bad idea? 🙂
I thought OP was looking for a much more cost effective solution for his requirements than typical, hence the suggestion of ethernet cable used can be had for cheap, especially if you know someone that installs networks. A networking job I did for a friend whom sold the job, but whom didn't have a clue as to actual installation claimed a job was for ~20 nodes spread out over an area of 50' in each direction. The requirements were for 50 nodes and 100' spread. 8,000 feet of cat6 and 14 hours later after multiple trips to several stores to buy up all they had in stock, finished the job. Had some left over. Gave to a friend so he could make speaker cables with the ~400' remaining.
In his opinion were far better than the "audiophile cables" he'd paid several hundred each for. There is no mysticism to this, no hype and certainly no high tech marketing psychobabble surrounding the use of these cables.
Art's suggestion is excellent if $2/ft is within budget.
Work better than speakons, with far lower contact resistance. Use them for 3 phase power on RC aircraft with power well over 2000w. Simply insulate with heatshrink and or press fit to enclosure wall.
The capacitance is negligible with cat5/6 with far less surface area to reduce skin resistance. I'll dig up the research paper if I have the time. Perhaps you should read up a little on the subject befor disclaiming it's a bad idea? 🙂
I thought OP was looking for a much more cost effective solution for his requirements than typical, hence the suggestion of ethernet cable used can be had for cheap, especially if you know someone that installs networks. A networking job I did for a friend whom sold the job, but whom didn't have a clue as to actual installation claimed a job was for ~20 nodes spread out over an area of 50' in each direction. The requirements were for 50 nodes and 100' spread. 8,000 feet of cat6 and 14 hours later after multiple trips to several stores to buy up all they had in stock, finished the job. Had some left over. Gave to a friend so he could make speaker cables with the ~400' remaining.
In his opinion were far better than the "audiophile cables" he'd paid several hundred each for. There is no mysticism to this, no hype and certainly no high tech marketing psychobabble surrounding the use of these cables.
Art's suggestion is excellent if $2/ft is within budget.
Never seen an amp which uses anything other than 2pole speakons as an output. Even 4ch amps tend to use 4 separate 2poles plus two further 2poles for bridged mode operation so it didn't cross my mind that there could be anything other than multiple connectors at the amp side.
Two of the amps I use have bare-wire connectors, one uses speaker XLRs and one speakons which makes it quite difficult to wire them wrongly.
Mind you I do use pro amps so I have no idea what multi-channel home amps might use but it is probably not going to be speakons in any form.
I have a strong suspicion Kev may be planning to build his own special 6 channel hifi amp 😉
so, Kev, what are we talking about
time to reveal a few more details
so, Kev, what are we talking about
time to reveal a few more details
Ha, sorry I didn't realise things would become this involved. Yes, the project is a 3-way active crossover one, so the amps will each provide separate low, mid and high range power outputs to my three drivers. Many people build the amps into the speakers but I've decided to have them separate/external - connected by the very speaker cables this thread is about.
My finances have recently taken a hit and i never really subscribed to the need for uber-high end stuff, and nor do i need the sort of robustness in the cable that a commercial system would, hence my thought of the 6-way (or so) trailer cable.
Cheers
Kev
My finances have recently taken a hit and i never really subscribed to the need for uber-high end stuff, and nor do i need the sort of robustness in the cable that a commercial system would, hence my thought of the 6-way (or so) trailer cable.
Cheers
Kev
Not a bad way to look at things 🙂
Am building a dual 4 channel active system where the amps/minidsp are attached to the speaker and the toroid PS/cap banks will be internal but isolated. Both on the bottom for stability sake. Have even considered building the amp into the base below the speaker as this thing will only be a tad over 9" deep, but ~52" tall x ~23" wide. No rugrats to deal with and don't really drink (one drink a month or less on avg) so it's not like having parties or a sloshed oh crap is likely to happen. 🙂
Am building a dual 4 channel active system where the amps/minidsp are attached to the speaker and the toroid PS/cap banks will be internal but isolated. Both on the bottom for stability sake. Have even considered building the amp into the base below the speaker as this thing will only be a tad over 9" deep, but ~52" tall x ~23" wide. No rugrats to deal with and don't really drink (one drink a month or less on avg) so it's not like having parties or a sloshed oh crap is likely to happen. 🙂
Easily shorted out, though.
That's why SpeakOn's so nice - very low contact resistance (I didn't see any figures on your site), plenty of current capacity, won't short out, and you can quad-amp down a single connection.
Thanks Greebster. Sounds like an exciting project! I'm also quite envious of your low drink intake - I'm reducing mine at the mo, but its challenging after a bad day at work, which most of them are just lately!
Yeah, i used the bullet connectors in electric RC cars in the past and they can certainly take the current, though occasionally one would get a bad contact and get too hot or come off the lead instead of away from its mate when disconnecting. They didn't look as good as those you linked to though, so perhaps mine were cheapo jobs. I'll have to consider the options; theres no doubt that these or similar would do the job well, but I like the speakons a great deal - they just seem so perfectly designed for the job... Is it strange to find a connector satisfying?
Cheers
kev
Yeah, i used the bullet connectors in electric RC cars in the past and they can certainly take the current, though occasionally one would get a bad contact and get too hot or come off the lead instead of away from its mate when disconnecting. They didn't look as good as those you linked to though, so perhaps mine were cheapo jobs. I'll have to consider the options; theres no doubt that these or similar would do the job well, but I like the speakons a great deal - they just seem so perfectly designed for the job... Is it strange to find a connector satisfying?
Cheers
kev
yes, you said that in the beginning
but you still haven't told us anything about your amps, and what connector(s) your amps have, or will have
Charles took it for granted that there will multiple connectors on amp side
and I took it for granted that you also wanted to use a single connector on your own DIY multi channel amp
hence the confusion 😕
how do you intend to 'terminate' amp connections ? ... splitting up the cable into seperates, or ... ?
8pole speakon at both ends.
8 core cable between them.
Double up the cores for the bass driver.
single pair for mid and another single pair for treble.
Treble and mid are hardly affected by a little added resistance in the cable.
Bass often benefits from keeping the cable resistance lowish.
8 core cable between them.
Double up the cores for the bass driver.
single pair for mid and another single pair for treble.
Treble and mid are hardly affected by a little added resistance in the cable.
Bass often benefits from keeping the cable resistance lowish.
Oh I see, sorry tinitus - I keep forgetting that whats in my head isn't necessarily visible to other people!
The amps haven't yet been built, though I have the main components so know more or less what they'll be. Each will comprise three ESP project101 lateral mosfet amps for bass, mid and high ranges. They'll be capable of around 100watts per amp but won't be used to their full potential (more like 60w even for the bass driver). Each trio of amps will have a linear power supply based around a 500VA 2x 40Vac torroid.
I'm going to build in the active crossovers too, and there'll also be various soft start and speaker protection gubbins and some balanced line receivers. They'll be set up as power amps (I'll make a separate pre amp). In terms of connectors, they'll have a 10A IEC mains (probably filtered) socket, a choice of balanced XLR and unbalanced RCA line-level input, a 6-way output 'of some kind' to the speakers, potentially an unbalanced subwoofer line-level output and probably a switching control connector of some kind to let the pre amp switch them on/off.
There'll be two of these power amps for left and right stereo channels. At least electrically speaking they'll be independent; I 'could' still decide to put them in the same enclosure, but at the mo I'm intending two separate boxes. I'd like to put them close to the speakers, but theres a good possibility they'll be several meters away out of sight, which would at least mean I could make them functional rather than pretty.
No doubt I'll have forgotten to say something else important, but at least I talked about them this time!
Cheers
Kev
The amps haven't yet been built, though I have the main components so know more or less what they'll be. Each will comprise three ESP project101 lateral mosfet amps for bass, mid and high ranges. They'll be capable of around 100watts per amp but won't be used to their full potential (more like 60w even for the bass driver). Each trio of amps will have a linear power supply based around a 500VA 2x 40Vac torroid.
I'm going to build in the active crossovers too, and there'll also be various soft start and speaker protection gubbins and some balanced line receivers. They'll be set up as power amps (I'll make a separate pre amp). In terms of connectors, they'll have a 10A IEC mains (probably filtered) socket, a choice of balanced XLR and unbalanced RCA line-level input, a 6-way output 'of some kind' to the speakers, potentially an unbalanced subwoofer line-level output and probably a switching control connector of some kind to let the pre amp switch them on/off.
There'll be two of these power amps for left and right stereo channels. At least electrically speaking they'll be independent; I 'could' still decide to put them in the same enclosure, but at the mo I'm intending two separate boxes. I'd like to put them close to the speakers, but theres a good possibility they'll be several meters away out of sight, which would at least mean I could make them functional rather than pretty.
No doubt I'll have forgotten to say something else important, but at least I talked about them this time!
Cheers
Kev
Andrew, thats a good thought, thanks. Most of what you say is along the lines I was thinking but I'd just intended to leave two of the 8-way poles unused - probably because the trailer cable I was looking at is only 7-way. However now you mention it, it would make complete sense to use the spare connector poles to double up on the bass lines if I find some 8-way cable.
Cheers
Kev
Cheers
Kev
That looks very good. Starting to get a bit costly unfortunately, but I guess 8 lots of heavy-ish gauge copper is never going to be cheap.
I'll have to look again at how close the amps could be. Or failing that, maybe if the bass cores were doubled up, I could get away with smaller gauge..
Cheers
Kev
I'll have to look again at how close the amps could be. Or failing that, maybe if the bass cores were doubled up, I could get away with smaller gauge..
Cheers
Kev
2.5mm^2 should be absolutely fine for 100W amps and runs under 10m, especially if you do double up for the bass.
just for comparing prices, I had a look at mounted cables
very often the price is just equal to the cost the parts
3meter premounted 4x2.5mm and 4-pole Speakon, cost 20EUR
so 4 of them would be 80EUR
mind you, there are diferent quality Speakons, and different prices
I think the cheapest ones are ok, but they do have a sligtly looser fit
as for your amps ...
I would build either 3x ordinary 2-channel stereo amps, or one 2-channel amp for bass, and a 4-channel amp for mid/tweeter
but I guess its only a matter of different flavours
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