Life is great sometimes! 🙂
Last saturday, I was given an excellent pair of Tanoys 12" monitor gold!!! 😛
I will spare the story as to how they became in my possession, it is a clean honest story, nothing to be ashamed about, but they are mine and pretty much free! 😎
They come in a box that was designed in the 80's and although they sound quite nice as they are, I can hear there is something wrong in the low mids.
I have not pinked' them as of yet or done any other measurements, just listening to all kind of stuff to get aquainted, right now, Lyle Lovett "Joshua Judges Ruth" with George Massenburg at the technical helm! 😎
They have the original Tannoy xover.
I was wondering what could be nice options with these guys...
- My thinking is that in the last 30 years passive xover have evolved tremendously, so maybe a revisit there is in order.
- I am thinking also bi-amping them,
- Perhaps a new box design? I have the feeling that the anomaly I hear comes from the way the box is built and the cross-over interactions...
The boxes are custom designed, nothing related to any known genuine Tannoy design.
But they do sound very well already! It is just this low mid anomaly that is very annoying! The box? the crossover?
Tonight I am making a 1 cubic feet test enclosure to derive the T/S parameters.
Any suggestions, ideas?
Luc
Last saturday, I was given an excellent pair of Tanoys 12" monitor gold!!! 😛
I will spare the story as to how they became in my possession, it is a clean honest story, nothing to be ashamed about, but they are mine and pretty much free! 😎
They come in a box that was designed in the 80's and although they sound quite nice as they are, I can hear there is something wrong in the low mids.
I have not pinked' them as of yet or done any other measurements, just listening to all kind of stuff to get aquainted, right now, Lyle Lovett "Joshua Judges Ruth" with George Massenburg at the technical helm! 😎
They have the original Tannoy xover.
I was wondering what could be nice options with these guys...
- My thinking is that in the last 30 years passive xover have evolved tremendously, so maybe a revisit there is in order.
- I am thinking also bi-amping them,
- Perhaps a new box design? I have the feeling that the anomaly I hear comes from the way the box is built and the cross-over interactions...
The boxes are custom designed, nothing related to any known genuine Tannoy design.
But they do sound very well already! It is just this low mid anomaly that is very annoying! The box? the crossover?
Tonight I am making a 1 cubic feet test enclosure to derive the T/S parameters.
Any suggestions, ideas?
Luc
@luc
Well, that's an interesting catch you have there.
You mentioned annoying low mids. Why don't you
open the boxes and take a photo od the inside.
It wouldn't hurt to make a schematic of the XO.
After you get the measured parameters, we will
be a bit wiser.
Also, attach the impedance graph of the box with XO,
if it's not too much trouble.
Well, that's an interesting catch you have there.
You mentioned annoying low mids. Why don't you
open the boxes and take a photo od the inside.
It wouldn't hurt to make a schematic of the XO.
After you get the measured parameters, we will
be a bit wiser.
Also, attach the impedance graph of the box with XO,
if it's not too much trouble.
If you want to try bi-amped you need to make a small modification to the crossover to split the "common trace" from the two drivers.
I just cut the track and drilled a hole through for the extra wire.
That hole would allow me to link across the cut, if I wanted to revert to the standard Tannoy crossover.
I just cut the track and drilled a hole through for the extra wire.
That hole would allow me to link across the cut, if I wanted to revert to the standard Tannoy crossover.
AndrewT, are you using standard x-over ?
I ask this because I am restoring a pair Tannoy PUMA 15", now in really bad conditions.
After a short listening, I feel they need equalization in mid-range....
Tanks.
I ask this because I am restoring a pair Tannoy PUMA 15", now in really bad conditions.
After a short listening, I feel they need equalization in mid-range....
Tanks.
Crossover schematics are here:
tannoy
Usual first steps are cleaning the contacts of the switches controlling HF and replacing capacitors.
Secondary steps rebuilding the crossover using point-to-point wiring to replace the pcb tracks and bypassing the switches in the setting preferred by you.
You can find all necessary info and meet a helpful bunch of people by joining the Tannoy Yahoo group.
tannoy
Usual first steps are cleaning the contacts of the switches controlling HF and replacing capacitors.
Secondary steps rebuilding the crossover using point-to-point wiring to replace the pcb tracks and bypassing the switches in the setting preferred by you.
You can find all necessary info and meet a helpful bunch of people by joining the Tannoy Yahoo group.
I don't know if the commercial gear has the same crossover PCB.
and the Puma is the dc386 chassis whereas I modified the the earlier HPD385
And yes, I did stay with the same crossover components as supplied by Tannoy.
I just added in the modified wiring.
Tannoy later adapted their domestic range to allow for hard wired switching and for bi-wiring/bi-amplifying.
Last edited:
The Puma driver is the 3805, a slightly more efficient version of the K3808.
My assumption is that the 3805 has a lighter cone. The main difference is in the crossover.
The one which was supplied with the K3808 was based around a now unobtainable autoformer. The nominal xover frequency is 1kHz.
The Puma crosses over at 1.8kHz and I suspect that is where your mid range problems come from ie running a 15" up to 1.8k in the first place and discontinuities in the dispersion.
If you can find the schematics for the Tannoy DC6000 crossover I think you can use that one for home use with the Puma driver. It is for the 3808 but does not use an autoformer. It should contain a pot to adjust treble level so you won't have to mess about with padding the tweeter down.
I think the schematic is available from aforementioned Yahoo group but I can't check as my Yahoo account has been suspended due to inactivity.
My assumption is that the 3805 has a lighter cone. The main difference is in the crossover.
The one which was supplied with the K3808 was based around a now unobtainable autoformer. The nominal xover frequency is 1kHz.
The Puma crosses over at 1.8kHz and I suspect that is where your mid range problems come from ie running a 15" up to 1.8k in the first place and discontinuities in the dispersion.
If you can find the schematics for the Tannoy DC6000 crossover I think you can use that one for home use with the Puma driver. It is for the 3808 but does not use an autoformer. It should contain a pot to adjust treble level so you won't have to mess about with padding the tweeter down.
I think the schematic is available from aforementioned Yahoo group but I can't check as my Yahoo account has been suspended due to inactivity.
You are right about the lighter cone and the higher crossover point of the Puma's .I had great results with the 3805 reconed with a 3839 cone and the crossover designed by Phil Short . see tannoy
The filters will probably sound OK with the original Puma's ,but lack Bass due to the much higher F3 of the 3805 cone . ( I measured somewhat around 80 hz)
Cheers ,
Rens
Attachments
Last edited:
@AndrewT, thanks for replay.
I like bi-amps approach too, useful whit high sensibility drivers.
@Charles Darwin, thanks for link, probably I will join Yahoo group.
I have not considered DC6000 xovers, time to google a little more....thanks, will be usefull.
@doctordata, seems to me that Phil Short made a good xover, interesting...thanks.
Where did you find 3839 recone kits?
I see in your photo a nice complete loudspeaker and an empty 15"chassis, when reconing tannoy`s is due to separate magnet from chassis ?
Wonderful car in your photo too...
Cheers.
I like bi-amps approach too, useful whit high sensibility drivers.
@Charles Darwin, thanks for link, probably I will join Yahoo group.
I have not considered DC6000 xovers, time to google a little more....thanks, will be usefull.
@doctordata, seems to me that Phil Short made a good xover, interesting...thanks.
Where did you find 3839 recone kits?
I see in your photo a nice complete loudspeaker and an empty 15"chassis, when reconing tannoy`s is due to separate magnet from chassis ?
Wonderful car in your photo too...
Cheers.
Your best bet for a recone kit in Europe is probably Lockwood Audio.
Lockwood Audio
You'd have to choose if you want to keep them original or recone them into either 3808 or 3838 spec (3809 and 3808 are identical, one is the name given for full speakers the other for the same driver sold separately. Same goes for 3838/39).
3838 have heavy cones, lower Fs, lower efficiency and rubber surrounds while 3808 are in between 3838 and 3805 with doped cloth or paper surrounds.
Come to think about it Lockwood may well have the schematics for the DC6000 crossover. Should be well worth asking them, in my experience they are very helpful.
Lockwood Audio
You'd have to choose if you want to keep them original or recone them into either 3808 or 3838 spec (3809 and 3808 are identical, one is the name given for full speakers the other for the same driver sold separately. Same goes for 3838/39).
3838 have heavy cones, lower Fs, lower efficiency and rubber surrounds while 3808 are in between 3838 and 3805 with doped cloth or paper surrounds.
Come to think about it Lockwood may well have the schematics for the DC6000 crossover. Should be well worth asking them, in my experience they are very helpful.
Last edited:
You can get all Tannoy parts here : You searched for tannoy 3839 | Speaker ExchangeSpeaker Exchange
You don't have to separate the magnet from the chassis when reconing , but my wife gave them a nice new golden spray paint .
The car is my lovely Toyota FJ Cruiser . Would be nice to blast that over the Playa del Ingles Beaches !!!
Cheers ,
Rens
@Charles Darwin,
Thanks for the good explication about different Tannoy drivers.
I have an open voice-coil in one cone. The coil looks good, no discoloration, no loose coil, no rubbing, but yes open circuit...I will try to fix it by lifting the magnet and see if I can solder the broken coil.
You are right probably Lockwood Audio is best bet, but Tannoy spares are so expensive...I hope not need to recone them.
Will ask for DC6000 xover schematics indeed.
Thanks again.
@doctordata,
thanks for the link.
What xover are inside yours boxes, looks very good !!
My chassis need golden paint too, but I am not married.....( still looking freely to topless girls
on the beach....)
thanks to all
Thanks for the good explication about different Tannoy drivers.
I have an open voice-coil in one cone. The coil looks good, no discoloration, no loose coil, no rubbing, but yes open circuit...I will try to fix it by lifting the magnet and see if I can solder the broken coil.
You are right probably Lockwood Audio is best bet, but Tannoy spares are so expensive...I hope not need to recone them.
Will ask for DC6000 xover schematics indeed.
Thanks again.
@doctordata,
thanks for the link.
What xover are inside yours boxes, looks very good !!
My chassis need golden paint too, but I am not married.....( still looking freely to topless girls
on the beach....)
thanks to all
Built a 28 litres cubic box last night for evaluating TS parameters .
I will use the method and the tools on this site: Welcome to Read Research
I will keep you posted of my findings later next week ( i am busy for now)
Some one mentionned that I can bi-amp using the actual passive x-over. How do we do this? Feed the signal to 2 amps and then separate the crossover and feed the high with one amp and the lows with the other? I don't see a point in this.
I have a Behringer DCX2496 and the DEQ 2496 EQ to play with. Once I find the best set of parameters I will then build a system dedicated unit.
It's the plan anyway, nothing cast in stone as of yet! 🙂
Luc
I will use the method and the tools on this site: Welcome to Read Research
I will keep you posted of my findings later next week ( i am busy for now)
Some one mentionned that I can bi-amp using the actual passive x-over. How do we do this? Feed the signal to 2 amps and then separate the crossover and feed the high with one amp and the lows with the other? I don't see a point in this.
I have a Behringer DCX2496 and the DEQ 2496 EQ to play with. Once I find the best set of parameters I will then build a system dedicated unit.
It's the plan anyway, nothing cast in stone as of yet! 🙂
Luc
Found this nice site about tannoys Tannoy Monitor Gold Cabinets
I think I will still measure what I have on hand, the monotor gold 12" with rubber surround
I think I will still measure what I have on hand, the monotor gold 12" with rubber surround
IMO the ...rubber surround 12's... are THE high point of Tannoy production. Red and Blacks included 🙂 These are entirely different sounding than either the pleated surround OR the problematic Foam surrounded versions
Very sweet sounding and delicate yet with serious 'in your belly' bass impact and dynamics.
When driven by Decent amplification. Typically a 20+ amp/current capable amplifier, invariably SS.
Tubes can't do the required currents. Tubes still sound good, just not near as good (spare me)
Before going off on tangents.. 70 litre Box is the sweet spot. Boxes have influence below 100hz 🙂 Bass is a Minor concern with those puppies.
Also those Crossovers are 40 Years! old.
Without doubt the Electrolytic LF cap has drifted if not outright died. (your low frequency issue ? 🙂
Replace it.. along with all the others using simple inexpensive Solens. With care you can even close up the Crossover boxes. Ignore the exotic parts are best Weenies 🙂and you will be in for a happy surprise
Tannoy Monitor Gold
Tannoy Speakers
Very sweet sounding and delicate yet with serious 'in your belly' bass impact and dynamics.
When driven by Decent amplification. Typically a 20+ amp/current capable amplifier, invariably SS.
Tubes can't do the required currents. Tubes still sound good, just not near as good (spare me)
Before going off on tangents.. 70 litre Box is the sweet spot. Boxes have influence below 100hz 🙂 Bass is a Minor concern with those puppies.
Also those Crossovers are 40 Years! old.
Without doubt the Electrolytic LF cap has drifted if not outright died. (your low frequency issue ? 🙂
Replace it.. along with all the others using simple inexpensive Solens. With care you can even close up the Crossover boxes. Ignore the exotic parts are best Weenies 🙂and you will be in for a happy surprise
Tannoy Monitor Gold
Tannoy Speakers
Last edited:
@bicefalo
Recoiling is possible without reconing but I think you will have to get the drivers to Lockwood somehow.
Recoiling is possible without reconing but I think you will have to get the drivers to Lockwood somehow.
The Filter is an exact copy of Phil Short's schematic , made with high quality components . Cost me about 250 $ for both . I'm going active over the holidays , so somewhere beginning next year they are up for sale , and I'm not the greedy guy 🙂
Not to many topless girls here in Aussie 🙁
Cheers ,
Rens
Attachments
- Status
- Not open for further replies.