John brown uses his sd player and thorsten wanted to use the big ribbon of the crescendo speaker for a next personal speaker.
My experience has shown me that no matter what you do, the heart of your system is the speakers; everybody knows that. My dad has too much speaker to name them, and also amps. I dont care about his amps at all!!!! Of course the amps and the source makes a difference, but nothing as big as switching from a bad speaker to a incredible one; its another world. A incredible speaker will sound incredible with a damn ipod and marantz.
I dont know the paradise phono stage at all, but im sure its good enough for most of us.
My experience has shown me that no matter what you do, the heart of your system is the speakers; everybody knows that. My dad has too much speaker to name them, and also amps. I dont care about his amps at all!!!! Of course the amps and the source makes a difference, but nothing as big as switching from a bad speaker to a incredible one; its another world. A incredible speaker will sound incredible with a damn ipod and marantz.
I dont know the paradise phono stage at all, but im sure its good enough for most of us.
yes, good luck with Paradise!!! 😀😀😀
sometime what they or I might offer is not what they or I might use for more professional use...in short...what you find here is mostly the lesser things.
However said, Paradise is definitely not contender with the best phono stage!!!!! Believe what you want, if you want to believe it is the best phono out there, just go ahead and have fun!
If you believe it is a good phono stage but nothing more...then I am with you.
Regarding your ridiculous test with speakers and amplifiers and your conclusions, I struggle holding myself back from commenting on your "theory" just go tell somebody like Nelson Pass what you just said and see what he says, you might end up believing him more than you do anybody else!!! 😱😱
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the heart of your system is the speakers.
Trouble is that a recording that sounds quite alright on an average loudspeaker, may transform into something horrible through an upperclass specimen. Happened to me with a cheap Miles Davis CD, lesson learned (for little dollar).
This is one of the worst hobbies, imo.
Again, a lot depends on the implementation.🙂This is one of the worst hobbies, imo.
Merlin,
there is DIY and DIY. Most of the DIY out there (kits you can buy) is medium quality design.
Take your beloved Paradise for example. You not only have built that but also using medium quality parts.
Do you you really think that you have got a great high quality Phono? If so you are wrong. I am not saying it is a bad phono by any means, but it it as far off from being the highest quality gear as I am from being in Rome right now!
Also, people build F5 or little tube amps or stuff like these...great stuff...but it is NOT the high level gears I am referring to.
You have certainly made better use of your money than other people who went to stores and spent their money there.
Nevertheless, in my debate, I am referring to way higher level equipment. Either way, speakers, cable, TT, Cartridge, Tonearm....I mean...what is that you have?
Sound system is made of a lot of parts and they are all almost equally important! 😱
Stefano still you suppose that I have only DIY kits, what about Wilson Audio as speaker, modified CEC TL1 as CD transport, Linn Sondek LP12 with Ekos tonearm, Arkiv MC cart, Linn Linto MC phono preamp, now I'm using DL103R modified without body with an 4gr brass isolator the Linto so far sold because I prefered the sound of Salas Valve Itch MM phono pre-amp with Partridge MC step-up. I tested in one weak all reference gear available as preamp and power amps finally ended with Erno Borbely stuff far better than all ultra-expensive high-end gear.
If you want to spend money go first to acoustic treatment and very good recordings: you save a lot of money and listen/enjoy better your system. Design, cost, looks, aestethics, weight, size, etc no matter for me I only ask good sound.
At the top end people are paying for something quite different: exclusivity, bragging rights, fashion, 'hand-made' (often inferior to machine-made), designer logos, 'good' marketing stories.
Take a look at the $15k Clearaudio cartridge linked to a few posts back. Besides the 14k gold body, it has a diamond inset into the front.
In the best high end audio tradition, they show seemingly impressive charts and graphs which they cheerfully misinterpret, assuming (probably correctly) that anyone laying out that kind of money is unlikely to be technically astute enough to see how hilariously false their claims are.
There is no debate here! People who talk like you are people who don't have $$ to purchase good things!
).
Wrong again.
SY your opinion re: the strain guage cart equalization. I find no evidence that they need anything less than a different version of RIAA maybe less drastic but still necessary. I can't believe that cart with +-5dB being favored by so many people. Well, at least we can all agree that's audible.
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Besides the 14k gold body, it has a diamond inset into the front.
Hey, a Russian mobster wants something to show for himself.
(there's a thought, a 14 karat cartridge pinkey ring)
Stefanoo,
if you were to choose between an Ypsilon vps, Aesthetix io, Clearaudio Reference, Boulder 1008/2008, a Soulution 750 or an FM acoustics 222 phono stage, each carrying an msrp way above $15k, which would you pick ?
None of the above, never heard of them. I still have enough of the old unobtainium Toshibas to DIY my own, not that anyone would engage in an honest no peeking listening test between the lot. The car anologies fall apart at some point, I like my clunky BMW X3 and frankly could care less about anyone's opinion otherwise.
I find no evidence that they need anything less than a different version of RIAA maybe less drastic but still necessary. I can't believe that cart with +-5dB being favored by so many people. Well, at least we can all agree that's audible.
The displacement (rather than velocity) sensitivity means that the overall slope of RIAA isn't needed, but just eliminating the RIAA causes exactly what you're saying. In the good commercial interfaces (e.g., Win, Robertson), this was taken care of; in the diy ones I've seen, it wasn't. I *think* there was a thick film equalizer in the old Microacoustics electret cartridges which converted the output to velocity-equivalent.
This was one more lesson I learned the hard way some decades ago, I tried eliminating RIAA when I used an FM cartridge (the Weathers) and it was a "novel" sonic experience. I did finally catch on and put in a few Rs and Cs to level things out. I could probably do a better job now than I could then (this was maybe 1980 when I was a callow youth), but sadly, no strain gauge cartridges seem to be in my lab. Too bad, the Panasonics and the Wins sounded great with well-designed electronics. The Weathers, likewise, albeit mono-only.
Take a look at the $15k Clearaudio cartridge linked to a few posts back. Besides the 14k gold body, it has a diamond inset into the front.
In the best high end audio tradition, they show seemingly impressive charts and graphs which they cheerfully misinterpret, assuming (probably correctly) that anyone laying out that kind of money is unlikely to be technically astute enough to see how hilariously false their claims are.
You mean this one? Its the Goldfinger. The newer "statement" model is nicer, the previous (V2?) had a treble resonance that pushed it towards "impressive" but I did not find it particularly engaging.
It was right there on its serial numbered FR chart not in my ears only, I asked to see that chart after I thought it must be obvious. The diamond is not fake BTW.

The photos come from an installation at a friend's acoustically treated room. He has changed to a higher spec Pluto arm now which is like a cross at the back with some Nordost inside the tube plus Odin TT cable tail as his rest ICs are, and moved to the statement cart. He had been through some phono stages, opted for the Zanden 1200 MKII at a point. He was stressing that the phono stage is the key in a TT rig. He asked me once to make something for him just for fun but he then got serious about remaking it and housing it even better. He made it permanent after he could easily discern the Odin VS the Valhalla TT tail cable on it when he could not on the Zanden he said, and sold it.
Still his power cable to the DIY phono costs triple the phono build itself despite I put all the highly expensive caps and terminals he wished for.😀
Attachments
None of the above
Neither would I, for somewhat identical reasons. Upside of EU is the fancy audio boutique at a hundred miles distance, in any direction.
(Since the mid '70s, I somewhat suffer from a Lamborghini obsession. Think collecting every published item on car models, engines, off-shore race boats, motorcycles, tractors. As in books, newspaper articles, posters, various car and engine parts, plus frequent visits to car shows/dealers, up to a factory tour in 1980. Seen all car models they ever made, sat in all of them, drove and ridden in a few. Still a horrible car)
The displacement (rather than velocity) sensitivity means that the overall slope of RIAA isn't needed, but just eliminating the RIAA causes exactly what you're saying. In the good commercial interfaces (e.g., Win, Robertson), this was taken care of; in the diy ones I've seen, it wasn't. I *think* there was a thick film equalizer in the old Microacoustics electret cartridges which converted the output to velocity-equivalent.
This was one more lesson I learned the hard way some decades ago, I tried eliminating RIAA when I used an FM cartridge (the Weathers) and it was a "novel" sonic experience. I did finally catch on and put in a few Rs and Cs to level things out. I could probably do a better job now than I could then (this was maybe 1980 when I was a callow youth), but sadly, no strain gauge cartridges seem to be in my lab. Too bad, the Panasonics and the Wins sounded great with well-designed electronics. The Weathers, likewise, albeit mono-only.
I suspect first order corrections were good enough that everything sounded OK. There is fertile ground here for some audiophile revisionism.
You mean this one? Its the Goldfinger. The newer "statement" model is nicer, the previous (V2?) had a treble resonance that pushed it towards "impressive" but I did not find it particularly engaging.
It was right there on its serial numbered FR chart not in my ears only, I asked to see that chart after I thought it must be obvious. The diamond is not fake BTW.
The photos come from an installation at a friend's acoustically treated room. He has changed to a higher spec Pluto arm now which is like a cross at the back with some Nordost inside the tube plus Odin TT cable tail as his rest ICs are, and moved to the statement cart. He had been through some phono stages, opted for the Zanden 1200 MKII at a point. He was stressing that the phono stage is the key in a TT rig. He asked me once to make something for him just for fun but he then got serious about remaking it and housing it even better. He made it permanent after he could easily discern the Odin VS the Valhalla TT tail cable on it when he could not on the Zanden he said, and sold it.
Still his power cable to the DIY phono costs triple the phono build itself despite I put all the highly expensive caps and terminals he wished for.😀
That's a beautiful sound system!'on that it would be interesting to do a comparison digital vs vinyl.
Neither would I, for somewhat identical reasons. Upside of EU is the fancy audio boutique at a hundred miles distance, in any direction.
(Since the mid '70s, I somewhat suffer from a Lamborghini obsession. Think collecting every published item on car models, engines, off-shore race boats, motorcycles, tractors. As in books, newspaper articles, posters, various car and engine parts, plus frequent visits to car shows/dealers, up to a factory tour in 1980. Seen all car models they ever made, sat in all of them, drove and ridden in a few. Still a horrible car)
Well good thing I am not the one boulder is one of the finest sounding phonos out there! Like I said, you might not like its great neutrality and transparency, then the FM cones into place with a more liquid presentation....now...If you don't like any of them...well....don't know what to say...unfortunately you have picked among the best of the best....just missed out the vitus top of the line....so...you didn't do much of a favor to yourself disagreeing with worldwide references. I would almost be tempted to say to you to tune up your ears...but I am sure you were kidding....or maybe you dint listened to any of them in the reality.
Anyway....life is good!

😎
Stefano still you suppose that I have only DIY kits, what about Wilson Audio as speaker, modified CEC TL1 as CD transport, Linn Sondek LP12 with Ekos tonearm, Arkiv MC cart, Linn Linto MC phono preamp, now I'm using DL103R modified without body with an 4gr brass isolator the Linto so far sold because I prefered the sound of Salas Valve Itch MM phono pre-amp with Partridge MC step-up. I tested in one weak all reference gear available as preamp and power amps finally ended with Erno Borbely stuff far better than all ultra-expensive high-end gear.
If you want to spend money go first to acoustic treatment and very good recordings: you save a lot of money and listen/enjoy better your system. Design, cost, looks, aestethics, weight, size, etc no matter for me I only ask good sound.
Ok....here is what I think...seriously....you should sell next your your table and arm and get a more modern design....just my modest opinion
As far as the previous phono you had, it was a joke honestly and Cartridge, again, just overpriced no kidding you preferred the Denon 103R ...oh my god!!
Borbely stuff are pretty good...I agree with you!
Regarding sound treatment and good recordings....I have professionally treatment material and about 150-170 audiophile LPs....not much but about the very best pressings out there...collection jeeps expanding....not so easy to find full analogue pressings from original master tape...
The displacement (rather than velocity) sensitivity means that the overall slope of RIAA isn't needed, but just eliminating the RIAA causes exactly what you're saying. In the good commercial interfaces (e.g., Win, Robertson), this was taken care of; in the diy ones I've seen, it wasn't. I *think* there was a thick film equalizer in the old Microacoustics electret cartridges which converted the output to velocity-equivalent.
I think you strain guage guys have been caught with your nickers down.
John brown uses his sd player and thorsten wanted to use the big ribbon of the crescendo speaker for a next personal speaker.
My experience has shown me that no matter what you do, the heart of your system is the speakers; everybody knows that. My dad has too much speaker to name them, and also amps. I dont care about his amps at all!!!! Of course the amps and the source makes a difference, but nothing as big as switching from a bad speaker to a incredible one; its another world. A incredible speaker will sound incredible with a damn ipod and marantz.
I dont know the paradise phono stage at all, but im sure its good enough for most of us.
Last comment on this obscenity. If you don't think amplifiers, preamplifiers, cables and sources are not that important as long as you got great speakers, I guess you need to go visit Wilson Audio and see how they demonstrate their pinnacle Alexandria.
Check if they have by chance cheap amplifiers or anything else that resembles cheap crap! A speaker is the end and core of the sound system, true, but the more revealing it is, the more it will make you notice if you have plugged any crappy gear below their line!!!
Like Wilson audio, go check other respectable speaker's manufacturer and check it out for yourself if any of them, in full mind, will demonstrate their $30-40K or more speakers with a cheap marantz and an iPad!! 😱
That's a beautiful sound system!'on that it would be interesting to do a comparison digital vs vinyl.
Those are the top Naim stuff at the left. Complete with their latest reg upgrade performed in the UK factory. Very nice. He listens to records mainly every time I visit him though. He demonstrated Jazz At The Pawnshop both on CD and vinyl to me once. He found the piano especially more natural on vinyl he said.
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