I found this paper on silver sulphide as a filament memory. http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/2010/EECS-2010-166.pdf
The metal filaments form across the tarnish layer acting as a on/off switch with memory. Not a nice thing to do to an audio signal at all.
I know from my own experience that tarnished silver contacts cause severe distortion to RF signals, so it is very likely that the same can happen to audio. You even have a real "burn in" mechanism. Yes it sounds different, but the distortion is an artifact.
The metal filaments form across the tarnish layer acting as a on/off switch with memory. Not a nice thing to do to an audio signal at all.
I know from my own experience that tarnished silver contacts cause severe distortion to RF signals, so it is very likely that the same can happen to audio. You even have a real "burn in" mechanism. Yes it sounds different, but the distortion is an artifact.
I'll need to find that thread! if you part bake a potato then coat each end in nutmeg, do you then have an NPN junction 😉
When I first got into hifi, to suggest that components had a 'sound' would bring ridicule from the industry and associated fanboi types.
If you told them a banana sounded different to say a cucumber they would call for the men in white coats to come pick you up 😀
These people even refused to consider that a length of 0.5mm diameter lamp cord was nothing short of speaker cable perfection. I still remember my surprise at how much the bass increased when I first tried 2mm cable. Technically of course they were right, the current demands of most hifi speakers can easily be met by using very thin wire.
Anyway we are ALL still learning I suppose.
Someone recently had enough of all the 75ohm digital interconnect foo and decided to replace the coax with a wire coat hanger straightened out. He could not hear any difference or show any increase in noise etc in his measurements.
Yup but that's why you can buy so many fab new products to spotlessly clean your expensive silver plugs 😉
It does occur to me that when you solder a silver conductor to a gold plated brass one using alloy solder, this MAY have some sort of effect other than on your wallet. All those different metals fused together with current passing through them might have some weird effect capacitance wise, who knows, I certainly don't!
Anyway I still maintain that the best interconnect is made of wire, even if a banana might well do a decent temporary job 😀
You have to be careful with silver near gold plating. Tyco published a good app note about silver
http://www.te.com/documentation/whitepapers/pdf/Ag_use_connectors_503-1016.pdf
http://www.te.com/documentation/whitepapers/pdf/Ag_use_connectors_503-1016.pdf
True, I have tried fibre optic cable on my digital kit but went back to using coax, the sound seemed slightly more natural with the coax but there was very little difference and I don't see the point in the extra components involved unless you want to send signals long distances.
Thanks, that's good reading. I'll need to go back over it later but skimming through it seems to confirm what I thought regarding silver plugs, especially in as damp an environment as I live in (under a cloud mostly).
Silver is very good in a sealed environment but phono plugs are far from sealed eh.
Maybe explaining that high capacitance interlink cable *can* lead to loss of high frequency reproduction if the conditions are right (high Zout for example, and very long cables) which can be heard (and trivially easy measured) could help to clarify?
There is not 'an' effect - the wrong resistor in the wrong application spot can cause an increase in noise, which may or may not be audible (you guessed it - depends on conditions); the wrong cable at the wrong spot can cause dull sound.
This is all basic stuff so why do we need to repeat this again and again? Isn't anybody doing that old fashioned stuff called 'studying'?
BTW I fully agree with you SY, just trying to alleviate your agony.😎
jan
No. It's more fun to pretend that you're doing significant work without the bother of learning the basics. Studying, learning, and doing real experiments are so... dreary. 😀
I'm trying to keep things on topic here- RCA plugs. The interconnect stuff is needlessly distracting and been covered again and again.
Because the difference in the sonic signature of copper and silver is about as subtle as being smashed across the face with a frying pan.The first time i heard a silver interconnect I had no idea of its material constituents; however my assessment of its sonic effects (which could not have been influenced by previous posts or articles relating to the use of silver as a conductor) has been subsequently mirrored by a multitude of contributors across many forums
I fear all the material you have studied which implies there can' t be a sonic difference between copper and silver inhibits your ability to hear a difference. As SY often states the power of suggestion can be very powerful. i concur.
Me, I prefer plain old copper.
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NPN - I like it!
As for silver connectors, shouldn't we worry about the tarnish? The vast majority of problems I've had in audio come from poor connections. I really like the fad for gold plated connectors, they seem to make trouble free connections.
Yes, that point has been made repeatedly. That is the single most critical factor in materials choice.
OK Mach1, I'll go get some silver wire and add it to my second round of wire materials. If it is as obvious as the pan across the face, no one should have any problem with it.
Can you suggest a proper length and what connectors I should use?
Can you suggest a proper length and what connectors I should use?
Exactly the same as to any material you are comparing it to. I would have thought it fairly obvious to change only one variable at a time when conducting scientific experiments.
I wish we didn't live on different continents. The striking similarity of the remarkably consistent findings of many others with my assessment of the sonic signature of silver (when I didn't know what I was listening to) makes me pretty confident i could survive a double blind.
OK, I can do the same length, 2 meters - just need to ask in case there was some minimum length needed to hear the effect. What length were the silver cables you used?
I am having a hard time finding pure silver RCA connectors. Shopping the web I see mostly silver plated brass, copper or stainless. I was hoping for pure silver RCAs.
I am having a hard time finding pure silver RCA connectors. Shopping the web I see mostly silver plated brass, copper or stainless. I was hoping for pure silver RCAs.
Two metres should be fine. The ones i listened to were shorter - about one metre from memory, and I'm sure they didn't use pure silver RCAs.
Re pure silver RCAs: I am sure there are some out there somewhere, however, I would imagine their cost would be astronomical. Interestingly, Shindo specifies expensive pure silver interconnects but runs them into switchcraft industrial connective hardware.
Sorry I can't be any more informative, but I inhabit the rarified hi-end of audio and personally use megabuck blue jeans interconnects.
Re pure silver RCAs: I am sure there are some out there somewhere, however, I would imagine their cost would be astronomical. Interestingly, Shindo specifies expensive pure silver interconnects but runs them into switchcraft industrial connective hardware.
Sorry I can't be any more informative, but I inhabit the rarified hi-end of audio and personally use megabuck blue jeans interconnects.
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I would forget about silver plugs and use half decent gold plated brass ones, if you use the same plugs on both types of cable, you can do a fair comparison quite easily.
Thanks chaps! Most of my testing has been done with 1/4" phone plugs on each end, as that's what the DAC/ADC units I use take for line level. I'll buy some good quality 1/4" connectors and some silver wire. I also have brass, copper and stainless steel wire to test, along with my wacky materials like mud and bananas. 🙂
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