I will do photos but i forgot my digital camera at the Frickelfest Light.
I have the speakers more or less in the focal points of an elipse that fits into the room, so they are as far as posible from walls. I, on the other hand sit close to the backwall.
I did an AES paper about this many years ago.
I listened more and i found that there is a lightness of tone that reminds me on electrostatics or ribbons. Sure, this are no bass monsters but the bass that is there is fast and tight, even with both tunnels open, at least in my setup. Many will put the speakers closer to the frontwall so in that case it may make sense to close one tunnel.
Roch, Pop, Jazz, Blues, no problem at all. The sound is very low in colouration and very well resolved without sounding hard. What really impressed the heck out of me is how they sound on complex and big material like symphonic classical and big band jazz. You here all kinds of tiny information but the fullness and wamth is intact. Depth, width and even height is as big as it gets, still there is good fokus when it is needed, like solo instruments and voices.
I have the speakers more or less in the focal points of an elipse that fits into the room, so they are as far as posible from walls. I, on the other hand sit close to the backwall.
I did an AES paper about this many years ago.
I listened more and i found that there is a lightness of tone that reminds me on electrostatics or ribbons. Sure, this are no bass monsters but the bass that is there is fast and tight, even with both tunnels open, at least in my setup. Many will put the speakers closer to the frontwall so in that case it may make sense to close one tunnel.
Roch, Pop, Jazz, Blues, no problem at all. The sound is very low in colouration and very well resolved without sounding hard. What really impressed the heck out of me is how they sound on complex and big material like symphonic classical and big band jazz. You here all kinds of tiny information but the fullness and wamth is intact. Depth, width and even height is as big as it gets, still there is good fokus when it is needed, like solo instruments and voices.
http://www.essex.ac.uk/csee/research/audio_lab/malcolmspubdocs/C78 Loudspeaker placement.pdf
Here you can downloud the paper. For me it is still valid although a bit extreme and optimized for one person. Try it, you will be surprised.
Here you can downloud the paper. For me it is still valid although a bit extreme and optimized for one person. Try it, you will be surprised.
Here you can find some more practical information :
http://www.canalisaudio.com/Canalis/Support_files/Canalis Speaker Set-Up.pdf
http://www.canalisaudio.com/Canalis/Support_files/Canalis Speaker Set-Up.pdf
My pleasure. I think precise setup is underrated.
When i judge what i hear at HiFi shows, even big systems in the 100.000,-€ range,
i mostly hear the room and not the speakers. How under this conditions people talk about soundstage and fokus is a mystery to me.
I have heard horn systems and line sources though that worked under show conditions, also in big rooms. The best sound ever i heard on shows was an active Appogee Duetta.
I may have sat 5 m away but it staged like heaven. That is a line source of cause.
Point radiators only work in the nearfield for me though.
When i judge what i hear at HiFi shows, even big systems in the 100.000,-€ range,
i mostly hear the room and not the speakers. How under this conditions people talk about soundstage and fokus is a mystery to me.
I have heard horn systems and line sources though that worked under show conditions, also in big rooms. The best sound ever i heard on shows was an active Appogee Duetta.
I may have sat 5 m away but it staged like heaven. That is a line source of cause.
Point radiators only work in the nearfield for me though.
Yes, that happens with big speakers in a too small room. Also i hear a lot of flutter echos on shows. Anyway, it seems that it is not natural sound that sells a component in quantity, at least not the sound that i think is natural. At Audio Physic times, when there was a criticism, people wanted more bass, or what they called "wamth". I think it is simply a time domain colouration what most understand as "bass".
I like bass, really, a lot of it, but it has to cary some meaningful message.
I like bass, really, a lot of it, but it has to cary some meaningful message.
Thanks, i think it is the Virgo 2 you like, the one tested in Sterophile 1996.
I think it was 16 or 17 pages. The longest review ever. What really blew Michael Fremer away was the soundstage. They totally disapperaed.
I tell you a secret : the design of the crossover took less then a day, i would say the critical adjustments took lesss then an hour. Neither where the parts in the crossover particular big or expensive. The drivers where good quality but nothing special, just very well designed. This design proved for me conclusively " mind over matter".
I think it was 16 or 17 pages. The longest review ever. What really blew Michael Fremer away was the soundstage. They totally disapperaed.
I tell you a secret : the design of the crossover took less then a day, i would say the critical adjustments took lesss then an hour. Neither where the parts in the crossover particular big or expensive. The drivers where good quality but nothing special, just very well designed. This design proved for me conclusively " mind over matter".
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In later days i got several Virgos back that had being "tuned" with expensive caps and such. They came back because the people where ultimatively not happy any more.
The " magic" was gone. the irony is that this was simple german engineering : solve the problem, make it reliable, make it affordable, make it look as simple as posible.
Less is more, ruduced to the max.
The " magic" was gone. the irony is that this was simple german engineering : solve the problem, make it reliable, make it affordable, make it look as simple as posible.
Less is more, ruduced to the max.
I would like to talk a bit more about the sound i get. As i told you the sound is light and fast but also very natural. Male voices have good chest tone and female voices have excellent resolved silbilance without spit.
The sound is on the light and airy side but also liquid and low in fatique.
The woofer is not inexpensive but so are the Iluminators and Excells of this world.
What is outstanding are the extended bandwidth and the class leading low distortion.
The bandwidth makes alignments possible that you can not do with less extention.
For example low order crossovers like mine or Jeff Bagbys linear phase variant.
When you like paper cones it does not come better. Some may prefer metal, ceramic etc, but that is another story. Sure enough you have to stop them ringing.
The sound is on the light and airy side but also liquid and low in fatique.
The woofer is not inexpensive but so are the Iluminators and Excells of this world.
What is outstanding are the extended bandwidth and the class leading low distortion.
The bandwidth makes alignments possible that you can not do with less extention.
For example low order crossovers like mine or Jeff Bagbys linear phase variant.
When you like paper cones it does not come better. Some may prefer metal, ceramic etc, but that is another story. Sure enough you have to stop them ringing.
I want to talk about the tweeter. I have a lot of experience with ring radiators. My old company Audio Physic used them from the beginning of their inception.
That was also the time where higher sampling rates got common and also SACD came about. So the extention over 20kHz came handy to explore the new media. The guess is out if we can hear so far up but they sounded more detailed then usual.
After a while we got a bit tyred of them though. One problem was the really poor mechanical construction from cheep plastic. That changed when the Scan Speaks came out but up goes the price 10 fold. So what we did was substituting the plastic frontplate with one of metal. A band aid i think in retrospect.
Measuring and listening further we found other problems : beaming and high second harmonic. Third was superbly low though.
Fixing the tweeters rigidly in the baffle reduced the problems but the necessarry complication was expensive and hard to control in manufacturing so we have plastic junk
in expensive clothes.
That was also the time where higher sampling rates got common and also SACD came about. So the extention over 20kHz came handy to explore the new media. The guess is out if we can hear so far up but they sounded more detailed then usual.
After a while we got a bit tyred of them though. One problem was the really poor mechanical construction from cheep plastic. That changed when the Scan Speaks came out but up goes the price 10 fold. So what we did was substituting the plastic frontplate with one of metal. A band aid i think in retrospect.
Measuring and listening further we found other problems : beaming and high second harmonic. Third was superbly low though.
Fixing the tweeters rigidly in the baffle reduced the problems but the necessarry complication was expensive and hard to control in manufacturing so we have plastic junk
in expensive clothes.
The SB is now a new aproach that brings out the best in ring radiators and solves most problems. Lets talk about the beaming. Ulrik made a wise choise and did a small difuse field EQ. That is the slight lift with a center of aprox. 15kHz.
Together with the off axis peformance that gives more treble energy into the room in the higher reaches. You can also use this property to adjust the treble to talste when you angle the speakers slightly inwards or outwards. This response peak is very soft and very high up so it does not add any spittyness i can perseive.
I prefer this much over the beaming that some ring radiators have.
Together with the off axis peformance that gives more treble energy into the room in the higher reaches. You can also use this property to adjust the treble to talste when you angle the speakers slightly inwards or outwards. This response peak is very soft and very high up so it does not add any spittyness i can perseive.
I prefer this much over the beaming that some ring radiators have.
The membrane is of a very high quality weave and has a suplle, slightly sticky coating.
When you scratch it with a finger nail the sound is very crispy and clear.
When you play music over the tweeter you can here a lot of fine details, very similar to a good ribbon. When i compare the sound to the mighty RAAL i would say the RAAL sounds like a highly polished mirror and the SB has a very slight silkiness. Some may even prefer the SB because it is very pleasing to the ear without loosing any detail. It sure is imensly musical, strings and plugged instruments stand claer and sharp in the room. I am certain that it will sound even better after some burn in and i simply used medium quality PP caps so there is some tuning potential with the parts choices in the crossover.
I think to use a strong ferrite magnet is a good choice here. Neodym is skyrocketing at the moment so the SB is very attractive prices. I have not heard a better soft dome, ring radiator or else.
Again there are other options besides ribbons, Beryllium, Ceramic and Diamond come to mind. So far i did not hear a diamond that is my taste. They sound dull to me although very low in distortion.
Different price class, different sound.
I have a lot of experience with the Scan Beryllium and think it is good but again there is some loss of "life". On the other hand distortion is superbly low so low distortion in the treble may come with the impression of less sparcle.
I had the same feeling when i first heard the Mundorf foil coils.
Maybe we need better electronics or better recordings to apreaciate that kind of excellence.
When you scratch it with a finger nail the sound is very crispy and clear.
When you play music over the tweeter you can here a lot of fine details, very similar to a good ribbon. When i compare the sound to the mighty RAAL i would say the RAAL sounds like a highly polished mirror and the SB has a very slight silkiness. Some may even prefer the SB because it is very pleasing to the ear without loosing any detail. It sure is imensly musical, strings and plugged instruments stand claer and sharp in the room. I am certain that it will sound even better after some burn in and i simply used medium quality PP caps so there is some tuning potential with the parts choices in the crossover.
I think to use a strong ferrite magnet is a good choice here. Neodym is skyrocketing at the moment so the SB is very attractive prices. I have not heard a better soft dome, ring radiator or else.
Again there are other options besides ribbons, Beryllium, Ceramic and Diamond come to mind. So far i did not hear a diamond that is my taste. They sound dull to me although very low in distortion.
Different price class, different sound.
I have a lot of experience with the Scan Beryllium and think it is good but again there is some loss of "life". On the other hand distortion is superbly low so low distortion in the treble may come with the impression of less sparcle.
I had the same feeling when i first heard the Mundorf foil coils.
Maybe we need better electronics or better recordings to apreaciate that kind of excellence.
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I switched to vinlyl. I also closed the tunnels and filtered the Sotori Monitors softly with 6dB octave under 80Hz. I connected my active dipole subs, so this is a little unfair against CD. I also must admit that i do not have much experience with high resolution digital.
The best i heard by far was an active system with the big TAD speakers. Huge Pass amps.
That where 24Bit, super high sampling rate master tapes played over a Microsonic Pacifics DA converter that was at least 50cm wide and 20cm high. I also heard the huge Mitsubishi Digital Master Recorder in the Rainbow Studio in Oslo. I know it can be done but not at home at this point in time i am afraid.
The best privat digital i heard in the home of a friend who is also a graet speaker designer was a heavy modified Linn Klimax Streamer.
The modifications where mainly mechenical like soldering all movable contacts, Power Filtering, vibration reduction and such. In this way commercial digital is not better then analog. So far for perfect sound forever.
The best i heard by far was an active system with the big TAD speakers. Huge Pass amps.
That where 24Bit, super high sampling rate master tapes played over a Microsonic Pacifics DA converter that was at least 50cm wide and 20cm high. I also heard the huge Mitsubishi Digital Master Recorder in the Rainbow Studio in Oslo. I know it can be done but not at home at this point in time i am afraid.
The best privat digital i heard in the home of a friend who is also a graet speaker designer was a heavy modified Linn Klimax Streamer.
The modifications where mainly mechenical like soldering all movable contacts, Power Filtering, vibration reduction and such. In this way commercial digital is not better then analog. So far for perfect sound forever.
Joachim G: Today my postman ringed the doorbell and there he stood with that LCR-meter you linked to earlier in the thread 
Very nice build quality contra price and best off all, it's working better then expected and also have illuminated display
I tested it with various coils in my "DIY"-box and capacitors (tritecs, foil, air, audyn, mcap) and was spot on every time. Time will tell, but i think this is a winner for us on a budget.
So just wanna thank you for the tip. Been looking for a long time...
Next is Satori tweeters
Very nice build quality contra price and best off all, it's working better then expected and also have illuminated display
I tested it with various coils in my "DIY"-box and capacitors (tritecs, foil, air, audyn, mcap) and was spot on every time. Time will tell, but i think this is a winner for us on a budget.
So just wanna thank you for the tip. Been looking for a long time...
Next is Satori tweeters
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