"do some of you people use these mega-subs with vinyl LPs?"
Well at least I don't want ro ruin my subs with sub20Hz noise! Cartridges/tonearms always have resonances and it is usually around -40dB. If you are playing at max 90dB. your bass/subs are trying to make 50dB of 3-15Hz all the time you are playing! Modern amps usually don't have a subsonic high-pass filter. This low energy is mostly converted to heat in the coils of speakers! It also stresses the power amplifier.
Hypex DS series plate amps have a fixed steep HP at 12Hz, it helps a lot.
I cut the low noise off of my digitized copies, but when I play analog LPs I switch off my sub. There still lies a problem with main speakers, particularly bass-reflex type.
Well at least I don't want ro ruin my subs with sub20Hz noise! Cartridges/tonearms always have resonances and it is usually around -40dB. If you are playing at max 90dB. your bass/subs are trying to make 50dB of 3-15Hz all the time you are playing! Modern amps usually don't have a subsonic high-pass filter. This low energy is mostly converted to heat in the coils of speakers! It also stresses the power amplifier.
Hypex DS series plate amps have a fixed steep HP at 12Hz, it helps a lot.
I cut the low noise off of my digitized copies, but when I play analog LPs I switch off my sub. There still lies a problem with main speakers, particularly bass-reflex type.
oh yes, it would definately show that bass from my bass guitar is much louder
isn't that what I'm saying, that it is louder
but it does not explain why a 75hz node sound like thunder, and shakes the whole room like everything is falling apart
but when feeding the same woofer/speaker with a hifi music signal it just sounds like a wimpy midrange with no bass at all
no, the only reason I can think of is that the hifi signal is only a wimpy compressed copy of the original signal
not that it changes anything
but could explain why we need so much sub amplification
another thing is, I can turn up SPL on my bass guitar without affecting any other instrument sounds that causes dum dum effect
but if you do it on hifi, you also turn up instruments like a food pedal drum etc... and will have the dum dum problems
though, turning up SPL on a low frequency subwoofer is so low frequency that you affect almost no instruments at all, only the room artefacts
You're comparing two configurations but change multiple variables between the two which will never result in anything conclusive. Use the same signal for both configurations and place listener and speakers at the same locations. That would eliminate a couple of variables.
You avoid answering one question so I have to assume that you don't have any measuring gear/experience.
P.S. node = note? A node is something different.
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good point
a guitar pickup is known to do that
and since the whole room is like one big vibrating mass...yes, that could explain it
I take that as a very good explanation, and leave it at that
a guitar pickup is known to do that
and since the whole room is like one big vibrating mass...yes, that could explain it
I take that as a very good explanation, and leave it at that
But you would be measuring with a 'feedforward' system only. In the case of the guitar, the room/speaker resonances could be reinforcing themselves with acoustic feedback, narrowing in on the exact centres of the peaks. Or something like that...
Copper Top have explained why it might happen
I consider this matter closed
but had I played piano or been a drummer, and asked the same question....
I consider this matter closed
but had I played piano or been a drummer, and asked the same question....
Simply feed the bass amp a recorded version. If there's no "thunder" anymore then he knows what's going on. Either way, a systematic approach helps more than endless speculation in online forums.
I don't believe in measurements, squiggly lines on a graph don't tell me much and besides my room gets changed around often so I'd be stuck with something that would be useless once the furniture got moved.
remember to count the number of persons in the room, and where they are located
makes difference too
could be why I have always preferred to be on my own when listening to music
but could just as well relate to other ... lets say 'destracting issues' 😀
makes difference too
could be why I have always preferred to be on my own when listening to music
but could just as well relate to other ... lets say 'destracting issues' 😀
Measurements have nothing to do with beliefs. The opposite is true.
That doesn't change the fact that it's nearly impossible to set up a system optimally without looking at those squiggly lines.
Well that is a problem with any speaker not just with subs.
Getting good bass in acoustcially small rooms is challenging. This was already discussed in this thread but it doesn't change the fact that recordings contain frequencies down to 30Hz (for music), 20Hz (for movies) or even lower. And it also doesn't change the fact that the difference is profound when done right.
If someone isn't willing to perform the necessary steps for getting low frequencies right then it indeed might be better to prevent those frequencies from getting played back but please don't call this HiFi.
That's how small, ultra-expensive "bookshelf" speakers with "tight bass" get sold 😉 Apart from the looks.
Or quite a bit lower, depending on what kind of music you listen to and if you're looking to convey it as it was intended.
I think most people would agree that this is a matter of personal perspective. One could argue that Hifi has become much more refined with the introduction of higher bit and sample rates, more sophisticated mastering, and cheaper better quality playback equipment.
Potent, and potentially unlistenable in most rooms. Most listening rooms have such a high ambient levels, wide dynamic range recordings would stress a system out trying to reproduce it under such conditions. This is why most recording are compressed a bit(it varies), so that they are more listenable under a wide variety of conditions.
Oh Yeah!! Can be a VERY bad problem. If your listening room has your TT smack in the middle of a LF node, feedback rears its ugly head.
Your TT local can be right on top of any one number of nodes of differing frequencies........found this one out the hard way.........picture some dude(me) wandering around a room with twelve feet of extensions on his TT, trying to find a spot with no feedback. Rumble filters are almost an extinct species...other frequencies can feedback just as easily.
___________________________________________________Rick.........
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Bandwidth is but one parameter, and not always the most important. Fidelity is defined as "faithfulness"
I've a 12" sub in a smallish room. Should hit 25Hz nicely, with a gentle rolloff below that. No problems there, though.
The biggest problem is that its sat on the same shelf as a pair of speakers, each of which has one of those Tang Band 6.5" long-throw bass drivers.
One of the cabinets is right next to the cabinet, so LF feedback becomes apparent at anything above fairly quiet levels. The Watermark album by Enya seems to hit the correct note perfectly...
Problem is, being in student accomodation, there's not much room to experiment with positioning. Its either shelf or desk, and there ain't much desk space...
That said, super-duper decoupling socks* placed beneath the speakers and turntable did help.
*Enabl'd and cryogenically treated, of course.
Chris
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