They've been adding sound effects to music since the '60's...and some of it is pretty fantastic.
I've got some Pink Floyd tracks that'll knock bottles off my bar in the other room if I try to play it back at realistic levels.
I'd imagine it's still not as impressive as it is when they do it live, either.
Not sure I do understand your comment right but we're talking about sound reproduction not production.
This was a mental block for me too at some point. Having a well integrated main with drivers capable of full range begs the question ... until you realize that LF production at these two points leaves other areas of the room, not the listening position, out of the "sweet spot".
Imagine dropping two pebbles into a pan of water. The peaks and dips of the small waves produced become mitigated to a degree when they converge. The convergence is limited to one prime area when excluding reflections.
Now imagine dropping in another and another (at random points) in addition to the two "fixed" (mains) drop points and the waves will be even further mitigated as they converge but the convergence is more wide spread within the pan .... a more even wave response with far less magnitude between the peaks and dips.
Imagine dropping two pebbles into a pan of water. The peaks and dips of the small waves produced become mitigated to a degree when they converge. The convergence is limited to one prime area when excluding reflections.
Now imagine dropping in another and another (at random points) in addition to the two "fixed" (mains) drop points and the waves will be even further mitigated as they converge but the convergence is more wide spread within the pan .... a more even wave response with far less magnitude between the peaks and dips.
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you may not need subs if you have 15" or bigger woofers , smaller woofers decrease response fast above 100hz and equalizing to lift bass will kill your woofers sooner
i´m using active xo and releasing the woofers of the low end improved my mid bass a lot
i´m using active xo and releasing the woofers of the low end improved my mid bass a lot
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In the system I slapped together I have 12" woofers (3way) with the option of including 15" woofer (4way) into the mains. Done it both ways. It's not about the ability of the mains reaching low enough ... it's about LF coverage. Earl Gedlee's approach simplifies this.
Correct, mains going down in frequency is NOT the solution. The LF problem in a real room is fundamentally different than the HF one and has to be dealt with differently. After a long and extensive look at this subject I have conmcluded that the mains should not go low and that there has to be multiple subs. There are a lot of details to be considered, but the bottom line is that subs are required - full range mains cannot achieve the same results. see loudspeakers and find the powerpoint on multiple subs.
OK. I take the hint, my sig is misleading and has hereby been edited.
"I hear thunder but there's no rain, this kind of thunder break walls and window pane." The Prodigy - Thunder
From my side it was a reference to the feeling of a well recorded and reproduced thunder, there are no thunder sounds in that tune, but I liked the sentence and find it amusing, allthough the real reference from Prodigy is probably in terms of bombs and explosions.
I prefer to use other tunes for testing.
Like the recording from 2L: Ivar Kleive - Om nogen til ondt meg lokke vil
The title directly translates to "If anyone to evil me lure will" the translation is wrong ever which way I write it, it is a religious church hymn, recorded as instrumental on church organ, very well played and dynamic recording, far better suited for testing purposes. And it sounds fantastic.
Sorry about the OT.
My two cents worth...
If your main speakers don't provide enough LF, then you either need better mains, or add a sub. In my case, my "mains" are quite flat, but only down to 100Hz. The roll off at around 12db/octave below that. (KEF R101). I built subs that go to 30, and am very happy with the results. What do I listen to? Classical. Jazz. New Age. Rock. Sometimes at realistic levels...
The decision for the mains was WAF-inspired. Refrigerator-sized mains were not an option...
If your main speakers don't provide enough LF, then you either need better mains, or add a sub. In my case, my "mains" are quite flat, but only down to 100Hz. The roll off at around 12db/octave below that. (KEF R101). I built subs that go to 30, and am very happy with the results. What do I listen to? Classical. Jazz. New Age. Rock. Sometimes at realistic levels...
The decision for the mains was WAF-inspired. Refrigerator-sized mains were not an option...
I think part of the issue is that even with refrigerator sized mains (think Velodyne ULD-18's used as speaker stands) you'll never get proper bass in reasonably sized rooms based purely on positioning issues.
But that's the point, that is not hi-fi. Anyone can go and by a cheap pa system and do the same. Tonight I was listening to Enigma and my little 6.5 inch Voight speakers still pack enough punch at moderate volume for my neighbors to complain, so why would I want subs?
But how is a pair of speakers designed to do this?
Old school speakers were often large anyway...for efficiency, and also for bass. The contemporary concept of the 'subwoofer' is largely a marketing ploy to encourage ladies to permit their husbands to buy home theatre packages, and extends to encouraging men to open their wallets to achieve personal linear compensation 😉
Well, say you want to listen to a good solo piano recording, I have several recordings with piano alone where there is information down to 25hz, granted most are harmonics, but they eminate from the piano and belong in the recording. And what about organ music? Or naturally ocurring reeverb from any recordings made in large rooms? Train sounds? The list is long.
"Brothers in arms" is a very popular song from Dire Straits, with/without good lf reproduction is a night/day difference.
... Depends in the circuit diagram. I must admit to enjoying a firm but juicy bottom end.
🙄Edit: Even on the occasional loudness circuit.
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Balerit: Here's some songs you should try to play...
Track name - Artist
Failbait - Deadmau5 feat. Cypress Hill
Never Ever Mind - Infected Mushroom (lots of content at ~20-25Hz)
Tiger - Paula Cole (lots of content at ~26Hz and 33Hz)
Play these loud and your 6.5" drivers wont keep up.
Track name - Artist
Failbait - Deadmau5 feat. Cypress Hill
Never Ever Mind - Infected Mushroom (lots of content at ~20-25Hz)
Tiger - Paula Cole (lots of content at ~26Hz and 33Hz)
Play these loud and your 6.5" drivers wont keep up.
I must admit to enjoying a firm but juicy bottom end.
mostly I prefer the bass to be light and 'crisp'...or 'airy'...and 'forward'
rumbling and thunder, no thanks, not for me
well, ok, with a big symphonie orchestra it can be nice
but its so rare I listen to that stuff anyway
but yeah, it needs power
People should try that program Markus eludes to in post #10. Load up the track in question and turn on the "melodic range spectrogram" pane. It's very interesting. I suppose I would want a nice smooth in-room response into the mid 20's.
I agree 100%, I don't need ear bursting bass. I once built a 15 inch bass reflex ala The Lost Art of Loudspeaker Design and when playing Queen's invisible man you actually got sick in your stomach - no thanks, I've mellowed too much. I always use Dire Straights 'News' for evaluation, good bass drum. Another thing my preamp controls are all set at 0.
I find most amplifiers cannot produce a good midrange sound, has anyone ever built a Jeff Macaulay moscode, it has has to be the best amp - for me anyway, great midrange detail which to me is more essential than low down bass.
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