I followed the basic plans for a straight 4x12" marshall stack cabinet.
Only I plan to seal the back up and reinforce it,
and mount the speakers so they are removable from the front.
Thing is, I'd like this cabinet to work as a bass-cabinet too,
and have it go down to about 30 Hz for a 5-string bass.
I got a few ideas from this page:
and I also looked at this ad, mainly for the tech. info about the cab they are selling.
I like the idea of an additional tweeter for clear highs,
and also, they are using smaller speakers for punch I suppose,
and they have ported their cabinet for more (lower?) bass response(?)
which is now 30" x 30" x 12 1/2" outside,
out of 1" thick counter-top coated real plywood.
(someone threw out a 3 1/2 x 7 ' sheet! formerly a table)
Inner dimensions 28" x 28 3/8" x about 11" = 5.026 cubic feet
or:
27.9 cm x 71.9 cm x 71.1 cm = 142627.311 cm3 = 0.142627311 m3 = 142.627311 Liters.
I used the following calculator to see what the standing wave frequencies of this space was:
mh-audio.nl
Oddly, this cabinet looks pretty good, in spite of two dimensions being very close.
I plan to reinforce the cabinet more, and use some deadening sealing foam and stuffing to remove resonances/reflections.
The front panel will be mounted about an inch in
to allow front-mounting the speakers from the front.
I'm wondering how to pick speakers, and/or a porting option,
in order to give a very flat response down to about 35 Hz.
I'm not sure what to do next, or what speakers I should be looking at.
- any help would be great.
Only I plan to seal the back up and reinforce it,
and mount the speakers so they are removable from the front.
Thing is, I'd like this cabinet to work as a bass-cabinet too,
and have it go down to about 30 Hz for a 5-string bass.
I got a few ideas from this page:
And also read a few ideas on this thread:
This was all good,
and I also looked at this ad, mainly for the tech. info about the cab they are selling.
I like the idea of an additional tweeter for clear highs,
and also, they are using smaller speakers for punch I suppose,
and they have ported their cabinet for more (lower?) bass response(?)
Now the thing is, I've already built my basic cabinet,
which is now 30" x 30" x 12 1/2" outside,
out of 1" thick counter-top coated real plywood.
(someone threw out a 3 1/2 x 7 ' sheet! formerly a table)
Inner dimensions 28" x 28 3/8" x about 11" = 5.026 cubic feet
or:
27.9 cm x 71.9 cm x 71.1 cm = 142627.311 cm3 = 0.142627311 m3 = 142.627311 Liters.
I used the following calculator to see what the standing wave frequencies of this space was:
mh-audio.nl
Oddly, this cabinet looks pretty good, in spite of two dimensions being very close.
I plan to reinforce the cabinet more, and use some deadening sealing foam and stuffing to remove resonances/reflections.
The front panel will be mounted about an inch in
to allow front-mounting the speakers from the front.
I'm wondering how to pick speakers, and/or a porting option,
in order to give a very flat response down to about 35 Hz.
I'm not sure what to do next, or what speakers I should be looking at.
- any help would be great.
Basically, you don't, the cab is much too small for adequate venting to ~35 Hz. Better to find drivers that will yield a ~35 Hz F3 in a sealed cab once the number of drivers is factored in.
GM
GM
Ok sounds good.
Lets assume 4 12" drivers (or 4 10" drivers, but I think I prefer 12").
And lets assume a closed cab:
How do I go about finding the right drivers/combo for a smooth reasonably flat and even yet large bottom end?
I don't think SPL or extreme power handling is as important as a smooth hump-free zone starting from about 30-40 Hz, up to say 300 Hz.
Lets also assume four 8 ohm speakers in series/parallel to preserve the 8 ohm nominal impedance.
But if using only two speakers would make getting the flat response easier,
that is still easy because I haven't cut any holes in the front panel.
What do I do next? I'm pretty much a novice at speaker-matching and cabinet filling.
Can you explain the "F3" parameter?
That's the frequency at which the db level is three db below the average. It's used at the top and bottom of the range to describe range. For example, a random speaker could have a range of 60-20000 Hz, both of those values will usually be the F3s
Check out the below website. Its very useful for modeling very basic enclosures such as sealed and posted (without and quarter wave resonances accounted for)
LinearTeam
That should give you a good idea of drivers will be best for your application
Good luck! I'm fairly new to this too so i feel ya
A sealed cabinet, unless you use subwoofer drivers (think Peerless etc), won't go that low. If you do use subwoofer drivers, their low efficiency means power handling is of immediate concern when you start cranking it up.
My 4x10" (sealed) cab has an f3 around 80Hz, rolls off slowly after that. If I use the graphic eq to get more low end (15dB boost @40Hz), the sacrifice is mechanical headroom - the speakers can't move enough air, and begin to bottom out.
That said, with no boost on the low end, the rig will drown out a drum kit in a decent sized auditorium.
Your best bet is to find a PA/bass guitar driver that'll go low in a small cabinet, and use 4 of them.
Chris
My 4x10" (sealed) cab has an f3 around 80Hz, rolls off slowly after that. If I use the graphic eq to get more low end (15dB boost @40Hz), the sacrifice is mechanical headroom - the speakers can't move enough air, and begin to bottom out.
That said, with no boost on the low end, the rig will drown out a drum kit in a decent sized auditorium.
Your best bet is to find a PA/bass guitar driver that'll go low in a small cabinet, and use 4 of them.
Chris
Hi,
Simply put, for portable guitar speakers, efficiency is far more important
than flat bass extension. The difference between a guitar cabinet and a
bass cabinet is two things - lower driver Fs and greater excursion
capability for bass - both of these though will reduce efficiency.
A dedicated 4x12 bass cabinet for 5 string bass would severely compromise
the sort of performance you can get out of a 4x12 built only for guitar.
Musical equipment is best built to do its main job well, and for a 4x12
guitar speaker that is to go as loud as possible with a relatively low
powered valve amplifier, usually. A 4x12 is 6dB louder than a 1x12,
effectively quadrupling amplifier power, that is why they are used.
rgds, sreten.
Simply put, for portable guitar speakers, efficiency is far more important
than flat bass extension. The difference between a guitar cabinet and a
bass cabinet is two things - lower driver Fs and greater excursion
capability for bass - both of these though will reduce efficiency.
A dedicated 4x12 bass cabinet for 5 string bass would severely compromise
the sort of performance you can get out of a 4x12 built only for guitar.
Musical equipment is best built to do its main job well, and for a 4x12
guitar speaker that is to go as loud as possible with a relatively low
powered valve amplifier, usually. A 4x12 is 6dB louder than a 1x12,
effectively quadrupling amplifier power, that is why they are used.
rgds, sreten.
Thanks for the explanation, and the link!
I'll have a look there and see.
I have gone to a few 'calculator' pages,
but in some cases I just got confused, and/or
was unable to use them because I didn't know the parameters
for the speaker.
Okay. So low frequency response is traded off for power handling.
(1) I was thinking that 4 x 12" partially addresses the problem of pushing air,
(2) I don't need to actually drown out a full drum kit in a large auditorium. I'm just looking for a cabinet that I can load in a car and play larger coffee-houses and smaller stages, something like a mid-size rig. So I'm willing to find a good compromise between SPL and Low end Bass response.
(3) On the power handling, again four times one speaker should be 4 x power handling capability. With the right choice of speaker, the cabinet should be able to handle say 300 watts RMS of bass without self-destruction or over-distortion...(?)
Do you know of any example brands or links to a good choice,
or one with specs I can try out in a calculator?
You clearly have some decisions to make. Either finish this cabinet as a standard 4 x 12 for guitar with some nice Celestion, Eminence or Webster guitar drivers, and make a second cabinet for bass guitar (evidently 5-string, as you need extension into the low to mid 30's to handle the B string) or make this cab with 10 inch bass guitar drivers that are (?) passable for guitar. Most bass guitar 4x10 cabs have 1.2 - 1.5 cf per driver so your cabinet is about right.
It can work. Afterall, the Stones were quite pleased with Ampeg 8x10 cabs from 69 thru the 70's. However, most guitarists prefer the tone provided by 12 inch drivers patterned after the 12 inch full range drivers of the 50's like the Jensen P12QX or the GE 1201A. These were single cone, wide range drivers, commonly used full range in HiFi systems.
Regards,
Bob
It can work. Afterall, the Stones were quite pleased with Ampeg 8x10 cabs from 69 thru the 70's. However, most guitarists prefer the tone provided by 12 inch drivers patterned after the 12 inch full range drivers of the 50's like the Jensen P12QX or the GE 1201A. These were single cone, wide range drivers, commonly used full range in HiFi systems.
Regards,
Bob
Okay, I understand the general ethos of the portable cabinet.
But in this case, I want to tweak it so as to move away somewhat
from max efficiency / SPL volume, and toward 'clean', flat response in the 40 - 200 range.
For me, its not about 'bite' or trying to overcome two guitars and a drum kit.
Its about getting a full but beautifully clean bass sound,
which can articulate the actual notes.
I want TIGHT bass, not loud bass.
I want clear bass, not shake your guts and damage you bass.
I'd like a bass sound thats clean, not full of midrange harmonics.
Okay, here I do have to wonder a little about the claim
of a design goal of maximizing efficiency / SPL,
because generally speaking, isn't a bass-reflex cabinet louder than a sealed cabinet (cutting off half the output of the speaker)?
Second, I agree with you that you can't really have an ideal guitar cabinet and expect it to also be an ideal bass cabinet.
So I'm sacrificing the guitar-cabinet function, or at least compromising that,
in order to get better bass response.
As you've already pointed out, four times one 12" is 6 db louder already!
Surely that move alone effectively addresses volume and power issues,
and so its down to loading the box with the best speakers
that will deliver clean flat bass down to say 30-40 Hz,
and leave the mid clear and not muddy or overloaded with
harmonics and/or intermodulation distortion.
I want clean power, and flat response on the bass fretboard,
with accurate tight articulation of notes and pitch,
not soft, floppy, slow response that leaves you guessing what note was played.
I'm really intrigued by your idea here:
Are you suggesting that 10" speakers are better for bass than 12" ?
If so, why is that exactly?
Wouldn't larger speakers push lower notes more easily?
What is being traded off here?
Presuming here that guitarists overdriving amps,
and getting a lot of distortion and harmonics,
were also seeking to add SPEAKER distortion (midrange loudness/punch)?
Now I definitely am thinking that the guitar goal needs to be secondary to the bass guitar goal.
As per my previous replies,
I'm looking for clean, at least in the bass-range of 30 - 300 Hz.
I'm not adverse to adding speaker distortion/midrange/swell in the upper midrange or treble. Maybe that is a good thing.
But the clean FLAT lower range is essential for the bass fretboard.
What would you recommend for this design goal?
"Are you suggesting that 10" speakers are better for bass than 12" ?
If so, why is that exactly?
Wouldn't larger speakers push lower notes more easily?
What is being traded off here?"
A critical factor here is the interaction between the enclosure and the driver in the bass range. Without going into too much detail, you can have any two of the following three performance characteristics: high efficiency, deep bass and small cabinets. For bass guitar, it is desirable to have high efficiency and deep bass, so you cannot have a small cabinet (you must have a large cabinet). What I am suggesting is that your cabinet is not large enough to get deep bass (into the 30's) from four 12 inch drivers having enough efficiency for the high spl use typically needed by bass guitarists. If you just wanted lower spl's, you could use 12 inch HiFi woofers or 'sub' woofers with sensitivities in the 80's. If you are building this cab for practice and garage jamming at moderate levels, then HIFi drivers could be used. However, they generally lack progressive surrounds - these stiffen up as excursion increases toward Xmech (the excursion at which permanent damage is likely), protecting the driver. The HiFi drivers could be blown much more easily than bass guitar (and pro-audio) drivers.
You are thinking correctly, that for equal excursions, a larger diameter driver moves more air than a smaller diameter driver. However, it's a matter of how how much spl is needed in the venues you will be playing in. You have not said just how much spl you need. Many bass guitarists in rock bands use 4x10 cabs to produce ear damaging spl's in venues with 300 or more people.
"But the clean FLAT lower range is essential for the bass fretboard.
What would you recommend for this design goal? "
In a band setting, the bass guitar must blend with the other instruments. Typically, flat deep bass response causes the overall mix to sound muddy. Further, the sense of note pitch comes from the harmonics, not the fundamental. Therefore, most bass cabs are designed with accurate response into the mid and upper bass, and with rolled off response into the deep bass. It is a pragmatic approach that yields positive results: smaller cabs and richer tone at high spls.
If you have a bass guitar with a B string it would be best to use the cab sealed. This has lower excursion and a lower rate of rolloff below the system resonance. Playing a ported cab below the range loaded by the cab (much below the tuning frequency) results in overdriving the driver (excessive excursion) and high distortion. So, in your cab you will get deeper bass and lower distortion using a sealed cab design. The 10 inch drivers allow a lower system resonance (all else being equal).
Lots to think about. 🙂
Bob
If so, why is that exactly?
Wouldn't larger speakers push lower notes more easily?
What is being traded off here?"
A critical factor here is the interaction between the enclosure and the driver in the bass range. Without going into too much detail, you can have any two of the following three performance characteristics: high efficiency, deep bass and small cabinets. For bass guitar, it is desirable to have high efficiency and deep bass, so you cannot have a small cabinet (you must have a large cabinet). What I am suggesting is that your cabinet is not large enough to get deep bass (into the 30's) from four 12 inch drivers having enough efficiency for the high spl use typically needed by bass guitarists. If you just wanted lower spl's, you could use 12 inch HiFi woofers or 'sub' woofers with sensitivities in the 80's. If you are building this cab for practice and garage jamming at moderate levels, then HIFi drivers could be used. However, they generally lack progressive surrounds - these stiffen up as excursion increases toward Xmech (the excursion at which permanent damage is likely), protecting the driver. The HiFi drivers could be blown much more easily than bass guitar (and pro-audio) drivers.
You are thinking correctly, that for equal excursions, a larger diameter driver moves more air than a smaller diameter driver. However, it's a matter of how how much spl is needed in the venues you will be playing in. You have not said just how much spl you need. Many bass guitarists in rock bands use 4x10 cabs to produce ear damaging spl's in venues with 300 or more people.
"But the clean FLAT lower range is essential for the bass fretboard.
What would you recommend for this design goal? "
In a band setting, the bass guitar must blend with the other instruments. Typically, flat deep bass response causes the overall mix to sound muddy. Further, the sense of note pitch comes from the harmonics, not the fundamental. Therefore, most bass cabs are designed with accurate response into the mid and upper bass, and with rolled off response into the deep bass. It is a pragmatic approach that yields positive results: smaller cabs and richer tone at high spls.
If you have a bass guitar with a B string it would be best to use the cab sealed. This has lower excursion and a lower rate of rolloff below the system resonance. Playing a ported cab below the range loaded by the cab (much below the tuning frequency) results in overdriving the driver (excessive excursion) and high distortion. So, in your cab you will get deeper bass and lower distortion using a sealed cab design. The 10 inch drivers allow a lower system resonance (all else being equal).
Lots to think about. 🙂
Bob
Apologies for my short reply, but I had to set off soon but spotted this thread so you know how it is...
Right.
As Bob has said, pro drivers are definitely the safer choice for getting loud bass guitar.
Depending on your bass style, the sound you're going for, and what you're playing along with in terms of other musicians, there have to be some compromises made.
First up, how low should you go?
Going all the way down seems intuitively a good idea, however...
To go an octave down at the same output, you need 4x excursion from the drivers. You'll also need around 16x the power to make up the difference in driver sensitivities, as sealed boxes lose 12dB in sensitivity in going an octave lower
The 300w into low-sensitivity drivers would be less than 20w into the high sensitivity drivers.
Preferably, you'd be able to go very loud - you can't always rely on a PA system to add to the volume, unless you always bring your own.
Here's what I'd do (and have done) - fill the cabinet with 10" or 12" high sensitivity drivers. Make sure they've got a decent amount of Xmax and Xlim (typical PA driver would be say 4mm Xmax, 9mm Xlim - plenty of safety room). Check the power handling tests they use - I cooked a 6" midbass thinking it'd stand more power than they'd actually tested for, because they claimed it'd be safe in "peak power handling". Put those in, and they might start rolling off around 80Hz.
Next up (and here's the clever bit), add eq to the low end using a Linkwitz Transform circuit. Make 1 or 2 of the circuits, put them on a rotary switch with a bypass position. That way, you can switch between, say, 30Hz, 60Hz, or 80Hz (bypass) extension, each one to be used at a different volume level.
Chris
PS - download winISD Pro, see how some drivers model. There is the option to add a Linkwitz Transform, just keep an eye on the Amplifier Power (VA) chart to make sure things don't get silly.
It sounds like lower efficiency also gives lower bass range extension.
Is this generally true?
That is, for deeper bass, I would want lower SPL.
But then you seem to also be saying they don't make lower SPL speakers in a high wattage/ pro bass / musical instrument format.
Is that true?
Since SPL is independent from wattage,
why can't I find a slightly lower SPL, high wattage (for safety) speaker,
and also have it with progressive surrounds?
I presume the progressive surrounds somehow trade off
the sound quality/ SPL / or frequency response in some way,
but its unclear what I am giving away by choosing progressive surrounds for safety reasons.
Okay.
This also makes sense. I am presuming that sealed cabinets
limit excursion and perhaps deepen bass response in a more controlled way?
But now I run into another problem:
I've been told that typical musical instrument speakers with "accordion" surrounds leak air and/or get damaged torn easily in sealed cabinets. Is this really true, or is it just true for crappy (cheap) low wattage badly made speakers?
I am presuming here that stiffer surrounds for musical instrument speakers is to increase power-handling and improve excursion difficulties. But if there's a danger or trade-off when putting them in closed cabinets, what is it,
and why do Marshalls for instance get away with closed cabinets?
Finally, I also have two Fender Twin 12" speakers sitting around. These are massive high-power speakers meant for an open-back cabinet.
Could I put them in this cabinet alone, and if so,
could I (should I) leave two large holes to simulate an open-back?
Would that make either a good guitar-cabinet or a good bass-cabinet, or what would I have to do to use these seemingly perfectly good speakers, for a bass guitar,
given I already own them?
Ported, unported,
is the risk of damaging the Fenders lessened by putting them in a larger cabinet like this (for 2 speakers, 5 cubic feet seems like a lot..?)
Again I'm fascinated and puzzled:
Why would smaller drivers give you a lower resonance?
What am I missing here?
If so, why not say 6 x 8" drivers, to go even lower?
What am I getting wrong?
In approximate order, a cone of given size with more mass and a more compliant suspension will have a lower free-air resonance, but also lower sensitivity (due to the increased cone mass).
Progressive surrounds represent increased distortion as excursion increases - this isn't desirable for home stereo, where low distortion is key.
Guitar speakers generally aren't much use for bass guitar - they're designed for maximum efficiency, so have tiny Xmax, and light cones that may crumple under the heavy load bass guitar represents.
For your last comment, you're taking your cabinet volume, and dividing it by the number of drivers. If each driver sees what it thinks is a tiny volume of air, the system resonance will be way above the driver's free-air resonance.
The cabinet is too small (always) to give PA drivers the air space they need.
A 12" driver requires more cabinet volume than a 10" driver, so, comparitively, the 10" sees a larger cabinet, so the system resonance will be lower, giving more bass extension.
Chris
To speak more about playing / musical goals:
Yes I'd like plenty of volume, but not ear-splitting - that is ridiculous and perhaps criminal in my opinion.
Also, I'm not concerned with the results when 3 other guitars and two drummers decide to all play full monte and layer solos in an attempt to drown each other out with their large balls.
Instead, try to picture your favourite bass tracks on your favorite albums, i.e., good studio mixes that come across as 'huge' and powerful, because they are well engineered.
Listening closely to say YES or Pink Floyd or even some especially high slew-rate techno pop with an interesting bassline and textures, or perhaps pull out a dozen or so female Jazz vocalists with fantastically recorded accoustic basses,
being played in a very spacious and non-overplayed polite arrangement.
I'm talking about each player not being in any hurry to prove he is the best guitar/sax/keyboard/percussionist ever, but seasoned players who have no ego problems and can give each other all the room they need to create a fantastic atmosphere and exciting and interesting sound tapestry, complete with EMPTY spaces.
Now under those circumstances, LOUD (to a point) is worthwhile, because you then have headroom and dynamics to use musically.
Of course this cabinet should also be able to support venues of say 300 people seated comfortably having drinks, and allowing for a lot of sound absorption because of fat people, and heavy carpets.
So: to recap:
(1) Ear-splitting - NO.
(2) Plenty of power and headroom - YES.
(3) Medium size venues - acceptable.
(4) FLAT clear response - YES YES YES
(5) lost in mix of twenty instruments - WHO CARES. NEVER HAPPEN.
(6) Durability High Power Handling - Yes within reason.
(7) Needing alot of amplifier wattage - Who cares? I build great high power tube amps. I'll add as many 6550s as needed.
(8) Will it go down for the extra 5th string if needed - PLEASE SAY YES.
Yes I'd like plenty of volume, but not ear-splitting - that is ridiculous and perhaps criminal in my opinion.
Also, I'm not concerned with the results when 3 other guitars and two drummers decide to all play full monte and layer solos in an attempt to drown each other out with their large balls.
Instead, try to picture your favourite bass tracks on your favorite albums, i.e., good studio mixes that come across as 'huge' and powerful, because they are well engineered.
Listening closely to say YES or Pink Floyd or even some especially high slew-rate techno pop with an interesting bassline and textures, or perhaps pull out a dozen or so female Jazz vocalists with fantastically recorded accoustic basses,
being played in a very spacious and non-overplayed polite arrangement.
I'm talking about each player not being in any hurry to prove he is the best guitar/sax/keyboard/percussionist ever, but seasoned players who have no ego problems and can give each other all the room they need to create a fantastic atmosphere and exciting and interesting sound tapestry, complete with EMPTY spaces.
Now under those circumstances, LOUD (to a point) is worthwhile, because you then have headroom and dynamics to use musically.
Of course this cabinet should also be able to support venues of say 300 people seated comfortably having drinks, and allowing for a lot of sound absorption because of fat people, and heavy carpets.
So: to recap:
(1) Ear-splitting - NO.
(2) Plenty of power and headroom - YES.
(3) Medium size venues - acceptable.
(4) FLAT clear response - YES YES YES
(5) lost in mix of twenty instruments - WHO CARES. NEVER HAPPEN.
(6) Durability High Power Handling - Yes within reason.
(7) Needing alot of amplifier wattage - Who cares? I build great high power tube amps. I'll add as many 6550s as needed.
(8) Will it go down for the extra 5th string if needed - PLEASE SAY YES.
Wow this looks like important and useful information.
So guitar speakers look like they are 'right out' (i.e., not recommended period).
It now comes down to this:
Properly rated (high power RMS continuous) speakers.
Heavy cones/ and if necessary progressive surrounds (perhaps there is a semi-version, i.e., less distortion, some protection).
10" (for this cabinet) woofers for lower Frequency response.
Large 'Xmax' - (is this maximum excursion?) What is considered large and what is considered small here?
moderate to good SPL for less amp wattage and less distortion.
Alright there is a lot of text here but it seems that you already have a ~5 cubic foot enclosure and you need to put some speakers in it.
My friend used a couple of these in some sealed cab for his personal system
Tang Band WQ-1858 12" Aluminum Subwoofer 264-897
Very low Fs of 20Hz, also large xmax of 13mm. Vas is a bit big so thats only two drivers, not 4, by the way
The top line is the ported sim, bottom is the sealed. Sealed will be more musical etc but may run out of excursion. Ported will sound a bit slower, but will have more headroom in its pass band, below port tuning frequency (17Hz) the cone will have almost no resistance and could go over excursion easily if anything weird was going on, so you'd want a high pass.
Sealed -
F3: 31Hz
F10: 19Hz
Ported
F3: 25Hz
F10: 16Hz
Not bad for either, in room I'd go sealed
My friend used a couple of these in some sealed cab for his personal system
Tang Band WQ-1858 12" Aluminum Subwoofer 264-897
Very low Fs of 20Hz, also large xmax of 13mm. Vas is a bit big so thats only two drivers, not 4, by the way
The top line is the ported sim, bottom is the sealed. Sealed will be more musical etc but may run out of excursion. Ported will sound a bit slower, but will have more headroom in its pass band, below port tuning frequency (17Hz) the cone will have almost no resistance and could go over excursion easily if anything weird was going on, so you'd want a high pass.
Sealed -
F3: 31Hz
F10: 19Hz
Ported
F3: 25Hz
F10: 16Hz
Not bad for either, in room I'd go sealed
Attachments
Hmm, as I originally posted, adequately tuning to 35 Hz at low distortion isn't viable, so how do you plan to somehow make it work at 17 Hz?
GM
GM
I wouldn't say "right out", but the sound of a speaker struggling to do what you're asking is..... An aquired taste, musically. I've heard the bassist from Korn took a razor to a guitar speaker, sliced the cone a little, and used that. Nasty, but certainly distinctive.
Okay, you want a fairly light cone, though that'll be indicated by other parameters - look at resonant frequency of the driver (Fs), and sensitivity.
For a 10" driver, 4mm one-way is a decent amount, but look for at least double that in Xlim.
Thing is, the more Xmax you go for, the lower the sensitivity of the resulting driver.
I like the sound these make - Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker
They fit the bill rather well, and will stand rather a lot of excursion before sounding bad.
Problem is they won't go that low in a sealed cabinet - you'll need some eq to get 30Hz. I'd still maintain you don't need to go that low, however - I use a fretless P-bass copy with my cabinet - set the eq flat, it sounds decent, but more harmonic than rumble.
Add eq to get it going low, and it sounds, while very deep, like it's just all rumble. I think a 6dB/oct rolloff in the bass gives the best sound.
Chris
Okay, you want a fairly light cone, though that'll be indicated by other parameters - look at resonant frequency of the driver (Fs), and sensitivity.
For a 10" driver, 4mm one-way is a decent amount, but look for at least double that in Xlim.
Thing is, the more Xmax you go for, the lower the sensitivity of the resulting driver.
I like the sound these make - Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker
They fit the bill rather well, and will stand rather a lot of excursion before sounding bad.
Problem is they won't go that low in a sealed cabinet - you'll need some eq to get 30Hz. I'd still maintain you don't need to go that low, however - I use a fretless P-bass copy with my cabinet - set the eq flat, it sounds decent, but more harmonic than rumble.
Add eq to get it going low, and it sounds, while very deep, like it's just all rumble. I think a 6dB/oct rolloff in the bass gives the best sound.
Chris
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