Hi GM
Hi other members
Somewhere I have seen your (GM's) version of Cyr-Marc 2000 calc. Can you post it here again?
After lurking around I have finally made up my mind to go 3 way, ONKEN for bass, 800/900/1000-10K in Le cleac'h horn with compression driver and a super tweeter above.
From my country we can not buy anything online, so managing a pair of 414 is nearly impossible. Great Plain is very expensive for me, specially so when air fair is considered. Is there any alternate which is also not so expensive?
Kappa 12a is a candidate with some added series resistence, how much?? I want to build the petite Onken enclosure with zero change cause when I get a pair of 414 readily I will put them in.
Regards
Regards
Hi other members
Somewhere I have seen your (GM's) version of Cyr-Marc 2000 calc. Can you post it here again?
After lurking around I have finally made up my mind to go 3 way, ONKEN for bass, 800/900/1000-10K in Le cleac'h horn with compression driver and a super tweeter above.
From my country we can not buy anything online, so managing a pair of 414 is nearly impossible. Great Plain is very expensive for me, specially so when air fair is considered. Is there any alternate which is also not so expensive?
Kappa 12a is a candidate with some added series resistence, how much?? I want to build the petite Onken enclosure with zero change cause when I get a pair of 414 readily I will put them in.
Regards
Regards
Greets!
Hmm, don't recall seeing this and now many months old, so did you find it elsewhere or design/build something different?
GM
Hmm, don't recall seeing this and now many months old, so did you find it elsewhere or design/build something different?
GM
Hi GM,
I have not built anything else as yet.
I think Eminence Delta 12A is a compromised candidate for petite onken box should I consider Rg at 3.5 ohms and S vent at 75% of SD. My calculation shows Vb total as 217L. whereas Petite Onken Vb total is 224L and L' vent 34.225cm. Would you pls confirm this.
For the mid horn I want to clone this:Round Tractrix Horns, but fostex D582 is expensive for me. Can you tell me about some cheaper alternative 2'' cd?
Regards
I have not built anything else as yet.
I think Eminence Delta 12A is a compromised candidate for petite onken box should I consider Rg at 3.5 ohms and S vent at 75% of SD. My calculation shows Vb total as 217L. whereas Petite Onken Vb total is 224L and L' vent 34.225cm. Would you pls confirm this.
For the mid horn I want to clone this:Round Tractrix Horns, but fostex D582 is expensive for me. Can you tell me about some cheaper alternative 2'' cd?
Regards
Greets!
Sorry, don't keep up with driver brands, prices other than Altec/GPA, so 1.4" exit is the largest compression driver I'm familiar with.
Ooh..... 300B, lucky you! 😀
Anyway, assuming the 12A's published specs are reasonably accurate, then combined with the amp's 2.5 ohms, it looks 'close enough' to fit the Petite as drawn in a ~n = 5.7 alignment and mildly misaligned with a probably inaudible [or euphonic at worst] low Q peaking ['bloom'] in the upper bass at 3.5 ohms.
GM
Sorry, don't keep up with driver brands, prices other than Altec/GPA, so 1.4" exit is the largest compression driver I'm familiar with.
Ooh..... 300B, lucky you! 😀
Anyway, assuming the 12A's published specs are reasonably accurate, then combined with the amp's 2.5 ohms, it looks 'close enough' to fit the Petite as drawn in a ~n = 5.7 alignment and mildly misaligned with a probably inaudible [or euphonic at worst] low Q peaking ['bloom'] in the upper bass at 3.5 ohms.
GM
Thanks GM for confirming 12a usage in petite onken cab. It was an insparation for me.
May be somebody can guide me for a reasonably priced 2'' CD for 8000/1000Hz-up ranges and an appropriate crossover for a 3 way??
Regards
May be somebody can guide me for a reasonably priced 2'' CD for 8000/1000Hz-up ranges and an appropriate crossover for a 3 way??
Regards
You're welcome!
I assume you mean 800-1000 Hz, though again, no clue other than pointing out this listing: 2 INCH HORN DRIVERS from Parts Express ship same day and come with 45 day money back guarantee. Free Shipping Available. Order free 10,000 product catalog.
GM
I assume you mean 800-1000 Hz, though again, no clue other than pointing out this listing: 2 INCH HORN DRIVERS from Parts Express ship same day and come with 45 day money back guarantee. Free Shipping Available. Order free 10,000 product catalog.
GM
Eminence has a cheep 2"
Fatialpro has very nice cheep 1,4" and also the 1.4" horn of fatial pro is cheep. together about 250 euro. No need for supertweeter.
The fatial pro is from 500Hz-20kHz
You want to build a onken no need to you can have better results with a openbaffle.
I made a openbaffle that does -3dB 30-35Hz 94dB 1Wmtr with 2 15" drivers. And place it 1,2 to 1,5 mtr from the backwall great sound even down to 20Hz. This makes the lowest group delay(like a closedbox) and low frequency extension with compact design I know.
Look at I thought the eminece delta 15". Use 2(Rv=4OHM) or 4 (ripol Rv=8Ohm). (I use the dipool low with kugelwellen midhigh horn for my PSE kt66 hybird tube amp.)
Drawing of a ripol design dipool.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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I do you propose a alternative high efficient 3 way design. Witch solves many negative effects of a onken horn with super tweeter
Make a ripol low unit and use a coaxial midHF unit so you have a real point source.
The openbaffle will give you real efficient subbas and will prevent many negative reflections and we use the back wave to extend the subbas down to 30Hz.
A coaxial unit will do the mid low range so you have the dynamics of the horn combined in a point source.
4X eminence delta 15B Ripol low up to 200Hz. http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Delta_15B.pdf
1X eminece beta 12cx coaxial unit in a closed box.
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Beta_12CX.pdf
Then use a BMSpro 4550 1" unit for HF we can cross that unit 800Hz!
http://bmsspeakers.com/fileadmin/bms-data/product_data_2011/compression_drivers_ferrite/bms_4550_2011-04_hf_compression_driver.pdf
This system will make a 96-97dB 1Wmtr 30Hz-20kHz with right placement even 20Hz -20kHz 96dB 1wmtr is possible with the room gain.
See attached simulations of the ripol. This is the response without correction with a choce you make the response flat 40Hz-300Hz
Photo of a ripol with 8 woofers.You see it is very compact with 4 delta 15" it will be about 40cm X30cm X70cm
Simulation of the group delay is even better than most closed boxes. You do not need to compare it to BR.
Make a ripol low unit and use a coaxial midHF unit so you have a real point source.
The openbaffle will give you real efficient subbas and will prevent many negative reflections and we use the back wave to extend the subbas down to 30Hz.
A coaxial unit will do the mid low range so you have the dynamics of the horn combined in a point source.
4X eminence delta 15B Ripol low up to 200Hz. http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Delta_15B.pdf
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
1X eminece beta 12cx coaxial unit in a closed box.
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Beta_12CX.pdf
Then use a BMSpro 4550 1" unit for HF we can cross that unit 800Hz!
http://bmsspeakers.com/fileadmin/bms-data/product_data_2011/compression_drivers_ferrite/bms_4550_2011-04_hf_compression_driver.pdf
This system will make a 96-97dB 1Wmtr 30Hz-20kHz with right placement even 20Hz -20kHz 96dB 1wmtr is possible with the room gain.
See attached simulations of the ripol. This is the response without correction with a choce you make the response flat 40Hz-300Hz
Photo of a ripol with 8 woofers.You see it is very compact with 4 delta 15" it will be about 40cm X30cm X70cm
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Simulation of the group delay is even better than most closed boxes. You do not need to compare it to BR.
Attachments
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Efficiency at 1W with corner placement. Look at 40Hz because from there we make the response flat. It shows we can have 100dB at 1W.
So I predict a efficiency of 100-96dB (depending on placement) at 1Wmtr 8OHM 30Hz-20Khz. With super groupdelay and subbas extension down to 20Hz. That in a super compact design of 45X40X83 cm 150liter. XO 200Hz-800Hz.
You will need about 15mH R=0,7 Ohm choke to make the response flat.
So I predict a efficiency of 100-96dB (depending on placement) at 1Wmtr 8OHM 30Hz-20Khz. With super groupdelay and subbas extension down to 20Hz. That in a super compact design of 45X40X83 cm 150liter. XO 200Hz-800Hz.
You will need about 15mH R=0,7 Ohm choke to make the response flat.
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Maybe even better beta 12cx 14 liter closed XO at 300hz second order.
Attachments
Helmuth, thanks for your valuable input.
My listening room is 14'x12'x9.5' - so I assume no room for a big system. Right now I run fe 206e (modified) fitted into 208 sigma cab. I am happy with the result, still I want to taste the result of fh loaded mid that is why I am trying to build the Onken bass box + fh loaded mid with CD + tweeter.
The country where I live importing large woofer is a real pain. However I am interested about the two woofer ripol unit, -what is the max high frequency out of such a rig, may be 250hz?
Regards
My listening room is 14'x12'x9.5' - so I assume no room for a big system. Right now I run fe 206e (modified) fitted into 208 sigma cab. I am happy with the result, still I want to taste the result of fh loaded mid that is why I am trying to build the Onken bass box + fh loaded mid with CD + tweeter.
The country where I live importing large woofer is a real pain. However I am interested about the two woofer ripol unit, -what is the max high frequency out of such a rig, may be 250hz?
Regards
With the ripol design it is indeed 250-300hz because above you see the comb-filter effect. It is also more attractive to cross 100-250Hz just below the vocal range.
It is possible to stretch the mid output by reducing the size of the baffle but then also the efficiency will be lower,
That is why I advise the 12"mid to be able to cross 250-300Hz and let take over the HF bms4550 at 800Hz. The bms 1"cost about 100euro. A coaxial is a very ideal driver.
A dipole low behaves very good in a normal room we use the reflection to stretch the efficiency low end down to 20Hz.
Your room is very not big you could concider a closed box-low in the corner and use room gain of the corner (+9dB)to get best result. When I am home from work I will try to design one. It would be helpful to show speaker-brands you have access to in India and you also would like to use. So I can help find a cost effective solution for your listening-room.
It is possible to make a closed-box line array (gain 6dB) with four mid-low woofers of 90dB 1Wmtr, that fits in the corner of your room and have about 98dB 1Wmtr.
Regards,Helmuth
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How about peerless india.
Products - PeerlessAudio.com
Eminence india
Sim. of two eminence delta 15B ripol.
Products - PeerlessAudio.com
Eminence india
Sim. of two eminence delta 15B ripol.
Attachments
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In the simulation you see "combined path -85" , this means 85 from the front of the driver to the back of the driver. This is due the size of the ripol enclosure.
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