Love it! Cheap as heck too. BIBs for three inch drivers can be made without the fold. Now i am wondering about those little one and two inch full range drivers in cabs like this.
Hmm, I believe you're really pushing your luck with drivers this small. I'm guessing you should tune them to Fs*Qts/2 and then experiment to find the right hi-pass filter to adequately protect them.
GM
GM
Thanks Godzilla!
That's interesting! Thanks! I'll build them as drawn for now, but I'd love to know more.
Fs is 95Hz, Qts is 0.34 - so tune to 140Hz?
Re. filtering - I think these drivers can take almost any punishment you throw at them. They're quite similar to Tang Band W3-871s, except they have a plastic cone. The cone is small and sturdy, surround is tough rubber, and the Xmax/Xmech is reasonably high. What happens in fullrange use is that you occasionally hear something bump against something else if you've turned them up too loud; One simply backs down off the volume knob and everything is fine. I have used these in foamboard BIBs with the original Fs*2 tuning, and W3-871s drivers in Cyburgs Needles for a long time - unprotected - and it was fine.
How does the Fs-related-to-Qts tuning work?
That's interesting! Thanks! I'll build them as drawn for now, but I'd love to know more.
Fs is 95Hz, Qts is 0.34 - so tune to 140Hz?
Re. filtering - I think these drivers can take almost any punishment you throw at them. They're quite similar to Tang Band W3-871s, except they have a plastic cone. The cone is small and sturdy, surround is tough rubber, and the Xmax/Xmech is reasonably high. What happens in fullrange use is that you occasionally hear something bump against something else if you've turned them up too loud; One simply backs down off the volume knob and everything is fine. I have used these in foamboard BIBs with the original Fs*2 tuning, and W3-871s drivers in Cyburgs Needles for a long time - unprotected - and it was fine.
How does the Fs-related-to-Qts tuning work?
You're welcome!
Check your math.........
Original default BIB tuning is Fs/2.
Whatever works for you......... much of my music collection is fairly dynamic and has a wide enough BW to demand some serious excursion even in a near-field app, so with no personal experience with any recent drivers this small, but with high Xmech ~4"-5" drivers I've bottomed out, I feel I have to err on the side of caution for general design recommendations.
Sorry, short of time and can't think of an quick/easy answer, but IIRC it's explained in detail either in one of Prof. Marshal Leach's and/or Don Keele's AES papers which are now on-line AFAIK.
GM
Check your math.........
Original default BIB tuning is Fs/2.
Whatever works for you......... much of my music collection is fairly dynamic and has a wide enough BW to demand some serious excursion even in a near-field app, so with no personal experience with any recent drivers this small, but with high Xmech ~4"-5" drivers I've bottomed out, I feel I have to err on the side of caution for general design recommendations.
Sorry, short of time and can't think of an quick/easy answer, but IIRC it's explained in detail either in one of Prof. Marshal Leach's and/or Don Keele's AES papers which are now on-line AFAIK.
GM
Thank you!
Oh! Yeah, so the classic tuning is 45Hz, and the line length is [speed of sound] / (95Hz / 2) / 4 = 1.8 meters (70 inches), right? (At least that's the number I get from the spreadsheet calculator.)
When I plug in Qts, like so: 95Hz * 0.34 / 2 = 16.15 Hz
And like this: [speed of sound] / (95 Hz * 0.34 / 2) / 4 I get a 5.2 meter line ... ? That can't be right either 🙂 I'm certain that I am making a wrong assumption. Does anyone see it?
And to rephrase my POV on these particular drivers: These drivers do indeed bottom out, but it's OK.
I really appreciate the leads to the papers.
You're welcome!
Correct.
Simple math isn't an assumption, so it must be right. 😉 Consider that a speaker driver has a 'sphere of influence' emanating from it, so if Fs*2/Qts defines its high frequency limit, then Fs*Qts/2 defines its low frequency limit, i.e. Fs is at its acoustic [1/f] power mean.
In theory then, the pipe will be tuned low enough to have enough acoustic loading that combined with some room boundary loading it will protect it to a much lower frequency than the default tuned BIB.
Well, there's OK, then there's 'OK'.......... like how many times can the VC be bounced off the back plate before it gets damaged enough to ruin the driver's performance?
Regardless, Godzilla was talking about even smaller drivers and since excursion for a given SPL increases by a factor of four with every halving of radiating area, what's OK for the W3 for a given SPL might not be 'OK' for an even smaller driver. I mean at 1-2", we're talking super wide BW tweeters here, so surely no larger than a 1" VC diameter and probably smaller.
GM
Ah! Now I understand everything. I think. I indeed thought you were referring to 3-inchers when you expressed your doubts. However, the discussion since then has been quite interesting. Cheers!
OK! I've drawn and re-drawn the plans for a proper build of the inverted unfolded BIB for Omnes Audio BB 3.01 three-inch drivers. I quite like them. They stand about 1.94m tall, or 6 feet 4 inches. Drawn for 19mm material. It's a very simple build. You just cut three rectangular pieces, all 1820mm, and then split one of the pieces diagonally - those will be the sides. There's a mildly complicated angle cut where the top meets the back, but I believe the angle cut can be omitted or done roughly, and compensated with extra glue.
These should be amazing in a small room. The drivers' 4 Ohm impedance make these a great match for a 12V Tripath amp. Great drivers, too. Much like a deluxe version of Tang Band W3-871s. Noticeably better bass, clearer mids, less harshness. Still cheap.
Here are the drawings and things:
Image gallery of plans: Photo Album - Imgur
Nicer PDF plans and Sketchup model at Box.net: BIB for Omnes BB 3.01 - Folder Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage
Here's what they look like:
(Note that these aren't the colours I'm painting mine in 🙂 ... just a color-coded image for assembly purposes.)
These should be amazing in a small room. The drivers' 4 Ohm impedance make these a great match for a 12V Tripath amp. Great drivers, too. Much like a deluxe version of Tang Band W3-871s. Noticeably better bass, clearer mids, less harshness. Still cheap.
Here are the drawings and things:
Image gallery of plans: Photo Album - Imgur
Nicer PDF plans and Sketchup model at Box.net: BIB for Omnes BB 3.01 - Folder Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage
Here's what they look like:
(Note that these aren't the colours I'm painting mine in 🙂 ... just a color-coded image for assembly purposes.)
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BIBs and Home Theatre
Been trying out HT content with my FE166en driven BIBs since yesterday. Source is a notebook and amp the tiny 3.5/wpc Miniwatt N3.
A friend had come over and he was the one who wanted to have a go - I was not particularly keen on it... I felt that HT content content might showcase the weaker points of FR systems. But such fears were dispelled to a great extent...
First of all, the speakers played very loud without distortion. Imaging was very good, and they didn't get overwhelmed even in complex scenes involving gunfire, shouting and explosions happening at the same time. Even whispers were quite legible and overall vocals gave the feeling of a phantom center. Yes, the system lacked the extra kick and rumble that a sub can provide... but otherwise bass was loud and powerful. My friend had a few game promo trailers, and the Tomb Raider Turning Point debut trailer in particular was jaw dropping. The bass came in hard, loud, and tight, yet speech and instruments were crisp and clear.
In another room I found these going down to 37 Hz, but I am quite surprised with the overall performance and the loudness levels. BTW, I have both BIB near corners - and that must be helping with the low end.
I am sure folks have integrated sub-woofers with BIBs, and I would love to hear about their experiences.
Cheers,
Zia
Been trying out HT content with my FE166en driven BIBs since yesterday. Source is a notebook and amp the tiny 3.5/wpc Miniwatt N3.
A friend had come over and he was the one who wanted to have a go - I was not particularly keen on it... I felt that HT content content might showcase the weaker points of FR systems. But such fears were dispelled to a great extent...
First of all, the speakers played very loud without distortion. Imaging was very good, and they didn't get overwhelmed even in complex scenes involving gunfire, shouting and explosions happening at the same time. Even whispers were quite legible and overall vocals gave the feeling of a phantom center. Yes, the system lacked the extra kick and rumble that a sub can provide... but otherwise bass was loud and powerful. My friend had a few game promo trailers, and the Tomb Raider Turning Point debut trailer in particular was jaw dropping. The bass came in hard, loud, and tight, yet speech and instruments were crisp and clear.
In another room I found these going down to 37 Hz, but I am quite surprised with the overall performance and the loudness levels. BTW, I have both BIB near corners - and that must be helping with the low end.
I am sure folks have integrated sub-woofers with BIBs, and I would love to hear about their experiences.
Cheers,
Zia
I had used a smaller Yamaha sub with mine (BIB with 168EZ), likely no more than an 8" driver. I don't recall the model number and it's no longer available. But their subs have a switch between home theater and music, which helps. The music switch limits the X-max, as I recall.
I found it to work pretty well to fill in the bottom end. Not near as nice as an H-frame, I'm sure, but didn't take up a lot of space and was easy to use.
I found it to work pretty well to fill in the bottom end. Not near as nice as an H-frame, I'm sure, but didn't take up a lot of space and was easy to use.
That is lack is probably because of the 3.5 Wpc... I have pushed my FE166E (not EnABLed yet) BIBs into HT duties just for grins with a 15+15 W amp and really didn't feel like I needed a subwoofer.
I also like to listen to Dorati's release of Tchaikowski's "1812", with the real cannons in the end and they are portrayed really good with rumble and shake. It depends of course on location (as you say, corners do help) and the dimensions of the rooms, that also define the room modes.
I hope I'm not being pedantic or annoying 🙂 ... but I want to say that the BIBs are explicitly designed to be in corners. It's not an improvement, but more like a requirement 🙂
I apologize for this meddlesome comment. Mostly intended for future readers of this thread.
I apologize for this meddlesome comment. Mostly intended for future readers of this thread.
Yes... that's correct. BIBs work to some extent against only a wall but the driver loading is not as good and they sound a lot thinner.
Within reason, I'm sure. A 6" driver with low x-max can only do so much. But it sounds like a happy listener, which is all that matters.
Actually there was rumble also, but maybe less of the impact that typically comes with a sub - and I have no complaint about that. On the contrary this much of bass from such a low excursion driver was very surprising.
Higher watts will probably give further bass authority, but I have found that the Fostex FE166en really likes the Miniwatt N3 and the combo belies their specs.
And btw, my drivers are not EnABLed - they are stock FE166en with phase plugs. Would have been nice to have a Planet 10 EnABLed pair though...
Higher watts will probably give further bass authority, but I have found that the Fostex FE166en really likes the Miniwatt N3 and the combo belies their specs.
And btw, my drivers are not EnABLed - they are stock FE166en with phase plugs. Would have been nice to have a Planet 10 EnABLed pair though...
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Zilla
I am squeaking on site for the first time but have been enjoying offerings from you and others for quite a bit, off-n-on. Would you mind helping me to find a description/picture/plan of the BIB please: My eyes are past their "best before date" and I'm having some trouble trolling through the years of (very interesting) postings trying to find specifics, I keep getting distracted (this time from the FH3 threads)! <]:-{.
Stephen
I am squeaking on site for the first time but have been enjoying offerings from you and others for quite a bit, off-n-on. Would you mind helping me to find a description/picture/plan of the BIB please: My eyes are past their "best before date" and I'm having some trouble trolling through the years of (very interesting) postings trying to find specifics, I keep getting distracted (this time from the FH3 threads)! <]:-{.
Stephen