_henry_ said:
Greets!
Ok, that sim is for a BIB of the same folded height as T.C.'s BIB and sized with my original formula. With the revised formula, it's somewhat larger: Sm = 679.674"^2.
FWIW, here's a full size BIB and the one I recommend if its size, relatively high driver location is acceptable:
L = 160.292"
Sm = 585.205"^2
zdriver = 34.783"
So, assuming 3/4" (19 mm) material thickness (all dims i.d. and approximate):
h = 80.146"
d = 28.768"
w = 20.342"
A-B-C = 14.384"
You say TQWT though, so wondering if you actually want an inverse tapered TL, the opposite of a BIB's expanding TL [horn].
GM
Attachments
Greg,
i got it, thank you very much. hmm.. interesting, as the exit lines face upward.
what kind of freq response should we expected from them?
im sorry for the newbie question, as im not that familiar with horn/bib properties. :d
cheers
henry
i got it, thank you very much. hmm.. interesting, as the exit lines face upward.
what kind of freq response should we expected from them?
im sorry for the newbie question, as im not that familiar with horn/bib properties. :d
cheers
henry
Hi _henry_,
Regarding the BiB and its response, MJK did a fascinating study including simulations / graphs:
http://www.quarter-wave.com/General/Fostex_FE-167E_BIB_Design.pdf
Regarding the BiB and its response, MJK did a fascinating study including simulations / graphs:
http://www.quarter-wave.com/General/Fostex_FE-167E_BIB_Design.pdf
I have made a Karlson K8 for my lone FE167e because I wanted to get the cabinet size down. But this makes me think that I should consider building another BIB.
And I will follow with interest any BIB builds for the FE167e even though discontinued and will review my BIB calculator results for the 167e.
[
Greets!
You're welcome!
Right, if you go through the whole thread you'll see it's just one way to implement a pipe horn same as any speaker type not specifically designed for one particular app, though as you can see, it takes corner loading for it to 'be all it can be' unless made longer, larger and folded up more to as much as one WL long to make up for the lack of room boundary loading. Such a long horn would have enough audible amount of delay between the mouth and the driver's forward output to require it to be XO'd at a fairly low frequency, so at this point it's better to design it as a tapped TL or horn to make the most of its size.
It's an offset driver loaded conical [or near enough] air column [horn] when laid out like the drawing shows WRT width/depth aspect ratio. For space/WAF/whatever reasons, some folks need to increase its acoustic path's aspect ratio into more of a slot shape that converts it to an increasingly parabolic expansion according to some others.
Regardless, the room dominates down low, so not an issue in a typical HIFI/HT app until it exceeds around 9:1 where it becomes audibly resistive, i.e. rolling off bass gain BW/higher F3 with increasing aspect ratio.
Basic horn action is it's a half WL resonator with a 1/4 WL fundamental: Resonances of closed air columns
GM
Greets!
You're welcome!
Right, if you go through the whole thread you'll see it's just one way to implement a pipe horn same as any speaker type not specifically designed for one particular app, though as you can see, it takes corner loading for it to 'be all it can be' unless made longer, larger and folded up more to as much as one WL long to make up for the lack of room boundary loading. Such a long horn would have enough audible amount of delay between the mouth and the driver's forward output to require it to be XO'd at a fairly low frequency, so at this point it's better to design it as a tapped TL or horn to make the most of its size.
It's an offset driver loaded conical [or near enough] air column [horn] when laid out like the drawing shows WRT width/depth aspect ratio. For space/WAF/whatever reasons, some folks need to increase its acoustic path's aspect ratio into more of a slot shape that converts it to an increasingly parabolic expansion according to some others.
Regardless, the room dominates down low, so not an issue in a typical HIFI/HT app until it exceeds around 9:1 where it becomes audibly resistive, i.e. rolling off bass gain BW/higher F3 with increasing aspect ratio.
Basic horn action is it's a half WL resonator with a 1/4 WL fundamental: Resonances of closed air columns
GM
This "audible delay" business always amuses me I have to say...
WL for 1 hz is 340m and that gives 1000ms delay...
that being the case, a 10Hz WL pipe will give 100ms delay and a 20 Hz WL pipe will give 50ms delay. By this point you're already into the territory of delay in many reflex cabinets.
Even for a full wavelength BiB that was chasing a 40Hz lower limit, your delay is sub 25ms and that's when you're talking about an 8.5m long folded pipe. (that's a 7 foot pipe folded four times to fit it in a room with 8 foot ceilings)
There aren't many of us who run path lengths anywhere near that long. Sorry, but I don't buy the whole audible delay deal for domestically suitable length pipes.
WL for 1 hz is 340m and that gives 1000ms delay...
that being the case, a 10Hz WL pipe will give 100ms delay and a 20 Hz WL pipe will give 50ms delay. By this point you're already into the territory of delay in many reflex cabinets.
Even for a full wavelength BiB that was chasing a 40Hz lower limit, your delay is sub 25ms and that's when you're talking about an 8.5m long folded pipe. (that's a 7 foot pipe folded four times to fit it in a room with 8 foot ceilings)
There aren't many of us who run path lengths anywhere near that long. Sorry, but I don't buy the whole audible delay deal for domestically suitable length pipes.
>>> This "audible delay" business always amuses me I have to say...
I never hear any delay. I have heard 'hollow' sounding back horns but never with a BIB.
I never hear any delay. I have heard 'hollow' sounding back horns but never with a BIB.
Has anyone tried a BIB with an MTM setup? I don't have math cad so I can't model these but could someome model the parker 98 drivers from here?
specs
I built these speakers years ago and was never happy with the bass. I have thought about making them into something new but it may just be easier to put them in a different cabinet. I put them in the BIB and it looks like they will work in a reasonable sized enclosure but I am not sure if it is going to really help out in the bass department. Will a mathcad sim give me a realistic F3 before I even waste time building them?
specs
I built these speakers years ago and was never happy with the bass. I have thought about making them into something new but it may just be easier to put them in a different cabinet. I put them in the BIB and it looks like they will work in a reasonable sized enclosure but I am not sure if it is going to really help out in the bass department. Will a mathcad sim give me a realistic F3 before I even waste time building them?
BiB sims for Tang Band W4-930SF 4"
Guys
Can any of you Sim the Tang Band W4-930SF 4" Paper Cone Full Range
and tell me what you come up with for Width Height & Depth
in BiB
this driver looks like a good candidate any thoughts.
4" Paper cone full range
Rubber surround
Neodymium magnet system
Imp - 6 ohm
Fs - 70Hz
Qts - .47
VAS - 8.7L
SPL - 89dB
Xmax - 2mm
Guys
Can any of you Sim the Tang Band W4-930SF 4" Paper Cone Full Range
and tell me what you come up with for Width Height & Depth
in BiB
this driver looks like a good candidate any thoughts.
4" Paper cone full range
Rubber surround
Neodymium magnet system
Imp - 6 ohm
Fs - 70Hz
Qts - .47
VAS - 8.7L
SPL - 89dB
Xmax - 2mm
>>> Can any of you Sim the Tang Band W4-930SF 4"
>>> rounded external (wood width 0.750")
D - 12.5"
W - 9.5"
H - 49"
Thanks for that Wagtail! Looks like another driver that can be used well in the same BIB i made for the Fostex 127e and Dayton 5 inch... the 4" TB bamboo looks like a winner too but i haven't tried it yet. My box is slightly smaller but probably close enough... I think mine is an inch or two taller but slimmer. The size you calculated for that BIB is probably close to an ideal compromise for many 4" to 5" drivers. I'd build it and roll drivers.
Stuff to taste and enjoy!
Zilla
>>> rounded external (wood width 0.750")
D - 12.5"
W - 9.5"
H - 49"
Thanks for that Wagtail! Looks like another driver that can be used well in the same BIB i made for the Fostex 127e and Dayton 5 inch... the 4" TB bamboo looks like a winner too but i haven't tried it yet. My box is slightly smaller but probably close enough... I think mine is an inch or two taller but slimmer. The size you calculated for that BIB is probably close to an ideal compromise for many 4" to 5" drivers. I'd build it and roll drivers.
Stuff to taste and enjoy!
Zilla
Would the CSS EL70 work with these same dims.
Also how far from top of cab to center of speaker placement.
Thanks wagtail.
Also how far from top of cab to center of speaker placement.
Thanks wagtail.
Last edited:
EL70 dims, inches
w =8.5
d = 11
h = 53.5
top of cab to speaker centre (z driver) = 22.87
for TB = 20.87
Hi all,
I am going to knock together a couple of 'throwaway' BIBs with the Omnes Audio BB 3.01 driver. It's a 3-incher.
I'm going to use chipboard. The question is how thick should the material be?
This is roughly how the design looks:
I am going to knock together a couple of 'throwaway' BIBs with the Omnes Audio BB 3.01 driver. It's a 3-incher.
I'm going to use chipboard. The question is how thick should the material be?
This is roughly how the design looks:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Those look cool. Stick em in corners for best performance. Use .75" chip board and enjoy!
Zilla
Zilla
Sorry for the OT. Does anyone knows where to buy Monacor drivers in North America 😕
Thanks
Albert
Thanks
Albert
Short answer: I don't think they have an American outlet. Reason, most of their drivers are re-branded stuff that is available in the US for less, and what they have of proprietary stuff is no better than comparable US drivers and are generally not worth it if you have to pay shipping from EU.
Squeak,
Thanks for the info, but there are too many brand names out there. Please email me if you have any names in mind.
BR
Albert😉
