music performance's sound waves, recording microphone electrical signals are not Platonic Ideals - they are real signals in noise and bandwidth limited "Channels" in the Shannon-Hartley Channel capacity sense
Guys .......
I was being rhetorical , my response was to the suggestion made to Sy about recording at 1/2 speed vs recording at the higher speed ...
regards,
I was being rhetorical , my response was to the suggestion made to Sy about recording at 1/2 speed vs recording at the higher speed ...
regards,
re: transferring vinyl
I did some of this recently, though I didn't get scientific about it. My position is, I'd rather have a less-than-ideal recording than no recording at all. I still have the vinyl is improvement becomes necessary. A bad recording is a little different. Sometimes that's not much better than no recording.
I recently came across what was claimed to be the first music recording. Poor sound by current standards; interesting nonetheless and worth hearing IMO.
This thread also reminded me of the old laser turntables. Does anyone still make/sell those? I know little about them except that they were expen$ive. Some of the "young whippersnappers" may not be aware such a thing exists.
I did some of this recently, though I didn't get scientific about it. My position is, I'd rather have a less-than-ideal recording than no recording at all. I still have the vinyl is improvement becomes necessary. A bad recording is a little different. Sometimes that's not much better than no recording.
I recently came across what was claimed to be the first music recording. Poor sound by current standards; interesting nonetheless and worth hearing IMO.
This thread also reminded me of the old laser turntables. Does anyone still make/sell those? I know little about them except that they were expen$ive. Some of the "young whippersnappers" may not be aware such a thing exists.
This is why I haven't done mine either. I probably have 1500 or so titles not on CD also and have presumed it would take a 2 pass methodology; once record it a bit low and use some program to detect peak level, then adjust gain and record the second pass. As I'm more of an 'album listener', just keep the recordings as album sides, not edited track by track. My gut says that just recording as in normal use will end up being less hassle.
With one title per day, should take under 5 years...
That's something you have to deal with in software, but if there were a way to shave 2 years off the transfer time...😀
For the lovers of the digital technology.... ACCORD 480 1704
Great piano.
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting
Great piano.
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting
I thought it never became a commercial reality..? One thing I heard was that while a conventional stylus just pushes soft dust and fluff aside, the laser can only register it as a huge boulder!
Re. laser turntable, I'm wrong about it never being a commercial reality, but they don't sell many!
ELP Laser Turntable: Plays Vinyl Records without a Needle
ELP Laser Turntable: Plays Vinyl Records without a Needle
Not at all.
If you use a decent ADC with a true resolution and SNR in excess of 16 bit then all you need to assure is that the peaks hit somewhere between -10dB and 0dB. This is quickly done.
Then transfer the file into a PC for track splitting, and bring the overall gain up to whatever you want.
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Increasing LP playback speed brings you to disaster area. Check out the formulas that predict e.g. tracking and tracing distortion versus frequency...
Halving playback speed is very beneficial, but any trace of 50Hz/60Hz in the recording chain will later be mapped to 100/120 where it is that much more audible.
Not so quickly- how does one know exactly where on the record the peaks are? It's not like a digital file where it's easy to search for the peak values.
I'm pretty much resigned to not bothering to rip more vinyl except for my more cherished albums.
I listen all the time. My medium depends on where I am. I travel a bit so its an Ipod right now.
You can either do the proper testing or you can not. Your subjective opinion on all of this is as meaningful as a discussion about checking so it was a good point only to prove your opinion is worth about as much as a chicken leg.
Also, there is no reason to be "exposed" that sounds like a sales job from someone selling audio products. I always get a kick out of those guys, they are trained to say "You have to listen" because they know subjective listening is always in their favor. I have already posted that I have no problem agreeing that a great LP setup will sound simply amazing. Will it be more amazing then a great CD setup?? That is up to our expectation bias and imaginations. To me both would be amazing so I would never care to argue if there was a difference, it would be like arguing the difference between driving a Porsche vs a Ferrari, the conclusion is really that both are amazing.
some have claimed to digitize even with "software EQed" flat gain preamp and the ~40 dB inverse RIAA and good soundcard
I'd guess that the more reasonable setup using a good RIAA peramp has much less dynamic range demand
today better soundcards should manage ~ 18 bits S/N
allowing for 12 bits/-72 dB below 5 cm/s and 3 bits/+18 dB peak is only ~15 bits, so you could have 9 dB margin on both ends - or use just one more bit for headroom if you think you need -84 dB below 5 cm/s
I'd guess that the more reasonable setup using a good RIAA peramp has much less dynamic range demand
today better soundcards should manage ~ 18 bits S/N
allowing for 12 bits/-72 dB below 5 cm/s and 3 bits/+18 dB peak is only ~15 bits, so you could have 9 dB margin on both ends - or use just one more bit for headroom if you think you need -84 dB below 5 cm/s
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Niagara Falls!
If I understand you correctly (and you're not actually joking), that involves doubling the ripping time, unless I happen to hit the right levels the first time.
LOL.. amazing you still don't get it , very naive....! 🙄
On another Note:
The Porsche and the Ferrari are very different and subjectively one is better than the other, but you wouldn't know nor care until it's scientific , one don't need science to make a cognitive decision, but there are those that love to hide behind it.
Again please list your Playback system of choice, you must be doing some listen to come to your opinion that one sounds better than the other ...
Regards,
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You won't hit the right levels the first time, unless you are very lucky.
But once you have found the right levels, you can run all future vinyl rips at that same level without worry.
Proceed thusly:
Convert these edited files to the format of your choice, E.G. 48Khz, 16 bit FLAC.
The idea is to find the maximum level that your cart and preamp provide on a pop. Stay just below that and you're fine. 24 bits allows you to then clean it up and bring the level up to a more normal place. -18dB for jazz, -22dB for a lot of classical. Hotter for most rock and pop. As long as you're not clipping, it's cool.
A tweak. If you find that the clicks are far above the music, you may be able to let a few clip. You can tell if the clipping is affecting the surrounding waveform by looking at it in comparison to a recording that is not clipped. I.E., you may be able to get away with some clipping to keep levels up. As you will clean this up anyway.
But once you have found the right levels, you can run all future vinyl rips at that same level without worry.
Proceed thusly:
- Find an LP or 2 that you know has some healthy pops and clicks.
- Set up your soundcard input level to maximum
- Run the LP and look at the meters in your recording software. Don't allow the pops to clip the input. Turn down the phono amp if need be.
- Record a few passes of bad sections.
- Now look at those in your editing software. Find the peaks. Where are they? Between 0 and -10dBFS? If so, you are good to go. If not, adjust the level of the phono preamp output to get into that range.
- Test a few more noisy passages to your satisfaction so that they don't clip but are not more than 10dB down
- Double check some loud passages from LPs.
- You are now set to record everything else. You're not going to clip, and the level won't be buried.
Convert these edited files to the format of your choice, E.G. 48Khz, 16 bit FLAC.
The idea is to find the maximum level that your cart and preamp provide on a pop. Stay just below that and you're fine. 24 bits allows you to then clean it up and bring the level up to a more normal place. -18dB for jazz, -22dB for a lot of classical. Hotter for most rock and pop. As long as you're not clipping, it's cool.
A tweak. If you find that the clicks are far above the music, you may be able to let a few clip. You can tell if the clipping is affecting the surrounding waveform by looking at it in comparison to a recording that is not clipped. I.E., you may be able to get away with some clipping to keep levels up. As you will clean this up anyway.
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