Thanks for the heads up. I think the 500W is well and truly overkill for my application.
What do people think about the 300W (into 4 ohm) plate amp? This is just as an alternative to picking up a nice, cheap, 2nd hand amplifier.
O Audio - 300W BASH Subwoofer Amplifier
Could I place an amp like that in it's own enclosure and then use it to power my stereo subs? Assuming that it is a single channel amp, could I connect the woofers in series (16R) and then connect the resulting speakers together at the amp, resulting in an 8R load which the amp can provide up to 150W into?
What do people think about the 300W (into 4 ohm) plate amp? This is just as an alternative to picking up a nice, cheap, 2nd hand amplifier.
O Audio - 300W BASH Subwoofer Amplifier
Could I place an amp like that in it's own enclosure and then use it to power my stereo subs? Assuming that it is a single channel amp, could I connect the woofers in series (16R) and then connect the resulting speakers together at the amp, resulting in an 8R load which the amp can provide up to 150W into?
Jaycar woofers.
I am going to try and XO using some form of software from the HTPC. Otherwise I am going to try and build/buy some form of active crossover.
Linkwitz-Riley Electronic Crossover
Plate amp if using a single sub. otherwise XO electronically and a stereo amp is how I would be doing it.
Also
BEHRINGER: CX2310
make your own patch cable adaptors
Plate amp if using a single sub. otherwise XO electronically and a stereo amp is how I would be doing it.
Also
BEHRINGER: CX2310
make your own patch cable adaptors
Thanks Moondog.
Just a few (more than likely stupid) questions. Firstly about the Linkwitz-Riley XO. Is it basically just an active crossover with the "Linkwitz tranform" functionality built in?
Can you explain whether I would integrate that with my existing loudspeakers? For example. Do I need to buy a couple of 2 way PCBs and have the bookshelf speakers connected to the high pass (remembering that my loudspeakers have passive crossovers), and the subs to the low pass? Could I then adjust the XO point to be ~80Hz?
Also, my soundcard has a sub out connection. I don't know if that means that I can just omit the high pass filter altogether from the PCB if I build them?
Secondly, the BEHRINGER: CX2310. I can get one of those through Ebay for around ~$150 which may be a possibility for me depending on how much I end up spending on an amplifier. If I bought this, would I still need to apply EQ to the sub to get the low end response up (linkwitz transform?). Or does the CX2310 take care of all that for me?
Just a few (more than likely stupid) questions. Firstly about the Linkwitz-Riley XO. Is it basically just an active crossover with the "Linkwitz tranform" functionality built in?
Can you explain whether I would integrate that with my existing loudspeakers? For example. Do I need to buy a couple of 2 way PCBs and have the bookshelf speakers connected to the high pass (remembering that my loudspeakers have passive crossovers), and the subs to the low pass? Could I then adjust the XO point to be ~80Hz?
Also, my soundcard has a sub out connection. I don't know if that means that I can just omit the high pass filter altogether from the PCB if I build them?
Secondly, the BEHRINGER: CX2310. I can get one of those through Ebay for around ~$150 which may be a possibility for me depending on how much I end up spending on an amplifier. If I bought this, would I still need to apply EQ to the sub to get the low end response up (linkwitz transform?). Or does the CX2310 take care of all that for me?
Last edited:
Heck we are starting to get to the limits of my knowledge now!! :LOL 😀
The LR XO at Rods site is a 4th order XO done electronically, and no transform included although I do recommend you read Rods site and see how he thinks.
The sub out on your computer will work IF it can be set at the desired frequency, some only output the .1 Sound Effects track, you will have to ask that set of questions in other forums, my knowledge of computer hardware/software is limited.
If the sub out is set to give all of the low frequency sound and everything else is high passed to the small boxes then use a "Y-cable" to send the Low Frequency to the stereo amp
Otherwise send the full output to the electronic XO ( yes I think you need 2 boards, ask Rod or reread the article) and then the outputs go LF to one amp and Mid/high to the other amp.
I would suggest you do read Rod Elliots article on Bi-amping thoroughly
The LR XO at Rods site is a 4th order XO done electronically, and no transform included although I do recommend you read Rods site and see how he thinks.
The sub out on your computer will work IF it can be set at the desired frequency, some only output the .1 Sound Effects track, you will have to ask that set of questions in other forums, my knowledge of computer hardware/software is limited.
If the sub out is set to give all of the low frequency sound and everything else is high passed to the small boxes then use a "Y-cable" to send the Low Frequency to the stereo amp
Otherwise send the full output to the electronic XO ( yes I think you need 2 boards, ask Rod or reread the article) and then the outputs go LF to one amp and Mid/high to the other amp.
I would suggest you do read Rod Elliots article on Bi-amping thoroughly
Haha, well I am grateful for all that you can answer.
I'm thinking that I'll try and just use my soundcard's capabilities to begin with. If this leaves me with much to be desired, I'll go from there. I'll have a good read of relevant pages from Rod's website, may send him an email or two.
Just realised one thing from your 2nd last sentence. I always assumed that the active crossover would go after the amp (like a passive XO) rather than in front of it.
I'm thinking that I'll try and just use my soundcard's capabilities to begin with. If this leaves me with much to be desired, I'll go from there. I'll have a good read of relevant pages from Rod's website, may send him an email or two.
Just realised one thing from your 2nd last sentence. I always assumed that the active crossover would go after the amp (like a passive XO) rather than in front of it.
Source
->>
Pre-Amp
->>
Crossover
->>
Power Amplifiers 1 +2 +3 +4 etcetera
Any passive XO elements happen after the electronic XO
->>
Pre-Amp
->>
Crossover
->>
Power Amplifiers 1 +2 +3 +4 etcetera
Any passive XO elements happen after the electronic XO
Wire the 0.5 woofer directly to the input terminal via the 4.7mH inductor in series before the driver +ve terminal. This makes it parallel to the existing crossover which makes bi-amping of the 0.5 woofer possible unlike a cascaded 0.5 woofer which can't.
The L-pad needs to be reduced as with a 0.5 woofer there will be more mids and bass so the tweeter needs less attenuation. The 4R7 needs to be reduced and the 8R2 needs to be increased.... such as 3R3 and 12R for example. You may be able to get the result just increasing 8R2 to 15R.
Last edited:
Thanks. For the system I would be planning to use the 2.5-way with, there is already a stereo amp that I would try to utilise before building something else. So would I be able to drive that speaker setup with a single stereo amp rather than bi-amping? If I recall, it can handle 4 ohm loads.
Just as a simplified example to help me understand it, say that each driver has a nominal impedance of 8R. By placing the .5 driver in parallel to the original crossover, the lowest load seen by the amplifier is 4 ohms, correct?
edit: Think I may be answering part of my own question here. You said that wiring the .5 woofer in that configuration would make it "possible" to bi-amp, I may have misinterpreted that as meaning that I would have to bi-amp.
Just as a simplified example to help me understand it, say that each driver has a nominal impedance of 8R. By placing the .5 driver in parallel to the original crossover, the lowest load seen by the amplifier is 4 ohms, correct?
edit: Think I may be answering part of my own question here. You said that wiring the .5 woofer in that configuration would make it "possible" to bi-amp, I may have misinterpreted that as meaning that I would have to bi-amp.
Last edited:
I'm back after even more reading and planning. I switched designs because the drivers in the one I had previously decided on aren't available. Now pricing up PL18WO-09-08 + XT25TG30-04, really cheap at madisound atm and I'll post list after if anyone wants.
Quick couple of questions. The price is starting to rise towards the level of buying an F5 kit. Have any of you guys heard a set of those and what do you think of them?
Also rabbitz you mentioned it wouldn't be difficult for niper to convert his 2 way into a 2.5 way for extra base. Would this still be the case for the design I've chosen (XO and box in particular)?
I'm re considering F5s because I've heard good things elsewhere. Also liked the idea of 2.5way but couldn't find any designs that seemed like they would be better than those chosen / available / in price range. Figuring out path I'll go down if I need more base before I get to that point. Similar to the measuring twice, cut once type adage. Any other designs I might have missed that I should have a close at obviously welcomed.
Thanks guys, the help is much appreciated.
Quick couple of questions. The price is starting to rise towards the level of buying an F5 kit. Have any of you guys heard a set of those and what do you think of them?
Also rabbitz you mentioned it wouldn't be difficult for niper to convert his 2 way into a 2.5 way for extra base. Would this still be the case for the design I've chosen (XO and box in particular)?
I'm re considering F5s because I've heard good things elsewhere. Also liked the idea of 2.5way but couldn't find any designs that seemed like they would be better than those chosen / available / in price range. Figuring out path I'll go down if I need more base before I get to that point. Similar to the measuring twice, cut once type adage. Any other designs I might have missed that I should have a close at obviously welcomed.
Thanks guys, the help is much appreciated.
I haven't heard any of the "F-5" iterations but the old models were OK if not brilliant, current price seems good value for money, although I used to be a fan of the D-19; I would not use it now ( I would try and find a small NEO instead to get C2C distances as small as possible ) I would be using this as the mid-range in a 3-way using a good pair of powered subs
OK just to clarify by D19 you're referring to the tweeter in the F5 right?
Also I realised I worded my previous post really badly, I meant if it would be difficult to convert the PL18WO + XT25TG into a 2.5 / 3 way later not an F5 since it is already 2.5way...
Yes. All you need is a 1st order xo on the 0.5 woofer and some reduced padding (leave out the 1R5-2R7 resistor and maybe reduce the 2R2) on the tweeter. The box needs double the volume (becomes a large speaker) and a larger diameter port (tuned to the same Fb) due to larger airflow using dual woofers. Since it's a series crossover, the 0.5 woofer has to be wired into the speaker terminal and not cascaded from the series crossover. The 1.5mH inductor may have to be reduced to 1mH-1.2mH to reduce the 2-way BSC as the 0.5 woofer does this function. The 0.5 woofer inductor may have to be increased to 5.6mh-6.8mH to compensate for some of the existing 2-way BSC.
A zobel would not be generally required on the 0.5 woofer as the crossover point is low and the rising impedance is beyond it's operating range. The zobel would only be required for roll off shaping and slope changing if desired when tuning.
One other thing. When adding a 0.5 woofer parallel to a 2-way series crossover, I use bi-wiring back to the amp as have found coming from a single terminal on the speaker can effect the mid quality. This is how my mains are wired as they are a series xo for the tweeter / mid woofer and parallel xo for the 0.5 woofer. So each speaker has 4 terminals (2 +ve and 2 -ve).
That's interesting. I'd be installing 4 terminals regardless just for the possibility of bi-amping later on down the track. Useful tip though.
Thanks for that Moondog, explained a lot amongst the differing opinions on how to correctly implement the 0.5 woofer, haha.
Lastly, as nobody corrected my previous post, I assume that what I said in my example was correct.
Thanks for that Moondog, explained a lot amongst the differing opinions on how to correctly implement the 0.5 woofer, haha.
Lastly, as nobody corrected my previous post, I assume that what I said in my example was correct.
Last edited:
Important and very subjective question. Possibly already answered by what Moondog originally recommended.
Would you guys advise doing the reference 2 way speaker even thought it might not perform as well initially on the basis of I can learn from, customise it and it generally seems like it would be more flexible and extensible?
Feels like I'd build that Vifa PL18WO one above then have generally no easy way of tweaking / extending myself since it seems quite complex and I'd just be asking stuff here constantly.
Would you guys advise doing the reference 2 way speaker even thought it might not perform as well initially on the basis of I can learn from, customise it and it generally seems like it would be more flexible and extensible?
Feels like I'd build that Vifa PL18WO one above then have generally no easy way of tweaking / extending myself since it seems quite complex and I'd just be asking stuff here constantly.
Also any vendors I should be looking at?
Got speakerbits prices, getting a quote from WES this week hopefully and Madisound don't have the P13. Was going to edit this onto previous post but its still awaiting moderation.
Got speakerbits prices, getting a quote from WES this week hopefully and Madisound don't have the P13. Was going to edit this onto previous post but its still awaiting moderation.
If you want alternative sources...
Darcher Audio
Hasaudio Speaker Components - International Suppliers of Speaker Components and Speaker Kits
I can also say that I am extremely happy with my 2 ways which were quite cheap to build, total of ~$220 excluding the MDF which I spent $20 - $30 on and still had a considerable amount left over.
Bass from these loudspeakers is impressive considering their size, they have plenty of presence when driven at a moderate volume (enough to annoy everyone else in the house), it lacks a bit at lower listening levels but I've never heard a set of speakers produce strong bass unless they are being pushed a little.
Darcher Audio
Hasaudio Speaker Components - International Suppliers of Speaker Components and Speaker Kits
I can also say that I am extremely happy with my 2 ways which were quite cheap to build, total of ~$220 excluding the MDF which I spent $20 - $30 on and still had a considerable amount left over.
Bass from these loudspeakers is impressive considering their size, they have plenty of presence when driven at a moderate volume (enough to annoy everyone else in the house), it lacks a bit at lower listening levels but I've never heard a set of speakers produce strong bass unless they are being pushed a little.
Thanks for all that. That looks possibly exactly what I was looking for initial, will definitely give it some consideration depending on the prices I get from WES for the P13 + D27 is like.
Looks like I'm in the same situation you were a few weeks ago. I guess you know what I mean when I say "thanks" for more designs to consider 😀. But seriously, cheers.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.