Zepticon,
I sincerely believe that such testosterone driven 'statement' speakers like the big Jamos or the italian design you are showing are only 'acceptable' to women - but not "attractive".
Could you accept to delegate all duties below 150 Hz to separate small subwoofers (which need not be placed in direct neighbourship to the main dipoles)? In that case a 15 cm wide baffle would be sufficient for an OB spanning 150 Hz up with an efficiency of 85 db @1W/1m and up to 115 dB max. SPL at Xlin. Any interest?
Rudolf
I sincerely believe that such testosterone driven 'statement' speakers like the big Jamos or the italian design you are showing are only 'acceptable' to women - but not "attractive".
Could you accept to delegate all duties below 150 Hz to separate small subwoofers (which need not be placed in direct neighbourship to the main dipoles)? In that case a 15 cm wide baffle would be sufficient for an OB spanning 150 Hz up with an efficiency of 85 db @1W/1m and up to 115 dB max. SPL at Xlin. Any interest?
Rudolf
full-grown loudspeaker can't be subtle.
physical laws exist; you can choose a compromise..
my girlfriends very like sound of my system, but there are boombox, multimedia 2way and old\compact FR systems in their flats. none of them have agreed to make a hole in the wall for IB sub at least..
physical laws exist; you can choose a compromise..
my girlfriends very like sound of my system, but there are boombox, multimedia 2way and old\compact FR systems in their flats. none of them have agreed to make a hole in the wall for IB sub at least..
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Design path
OK, Passive it is. This indicates a three way design with dual woofers, 10 – 12 inch class.
You can stay within the dimensional boundaries of the Orion. But to do that, and remain fully passive, you will need to trade away some bass extension and efficiency. With a passive dual 10” woofer system and assuming flat response to about 40 HZ, you will end up around 84-87 db/watt efficiency. This will require 50-100 WPC of power availability.
Your intended living room use should be handled easily by the dual 10” drivers as long as you do not need to play much below 40 Hz and can accept a maximum output (peaks) of just under 100 db.
It may be a good idea to refine your aesthetic preferences at this time. After all, this is an aesthetics driven project. Do things a bit differently, as in some drawings and working out construction materials you would likely use to achieve the appearance you prefer before driver and crossover choices are made.
Like the Orion, assume a 12” max width and something like a 12” – 14” depth. If the speaker must be shallower, some additional concessions to efficiency and or bass extension will have to be made. Your baffle width and wing depth will set the F equal and F Peak characteristics of your bass section. And that effects everything else in the design a considerable degree.
You are in the furniture mode first, and speaker mode second. Cardboard mock up(s) may be in order (to scale) to give you a better sense of size and proportion. Assume at least a 40” height. 46” is better. Just need the space to get the drivers on the baffle board and the tweeter up off the floor (at least 36”).
OK, Passive it is. This indicates a three way design with dual woofers, 10 – 12 inch class.
You can stay within the dimensional boundaries of the Orion. But to do that, and remain fully passive, you will need to trade away some bass extension and efficiency. With a passive dual 10” woofer system and assuming flat response to about 40 HZ, you will end up around 84-87 db/watt efficiency. This will require 50-100 WPC of power availability.
Your intended living room use should be handled easily by the dual 10” drivers as long as you do not need to play much below 40 Hz and can accept a maximum output (peaks) of just under 100 db.
It may be a good idea to refine your aesthetic preferences at this time. After all, this is an aesthetics driven project. Do things a bit differently, as in some drawings and working out construction materials you would likely use to achieve the appearance you prefer before driver and crossover choices are made.
Like the Orion, assume a 12” max width and something like a 12” – 14” depth. If the speaker must be shallower, some additional concessions to efficiency and or bass extension will have to be made. Your baffle width and wing depth will set the F equal and F Peak characteristics of your bass section. And that effects everything else in the design a considerable degree.
You are in the furniture mode first, and speaker mode second. Cardboard mock up(s) may be in order (to scale) to give you a better sense of size and proportion. Assume at least a 40” height. 46” is better. Just need the space to get the drivers on the baffle board and the tweeter up off the floor (at least 36”).
Hi,
It allways helps if there is a place for a flower pot on the top! You can introduce them as a furniture.
- Elias
It allways helps if there is a place for a flower pot on the top! You can introduce them as a furniture.
- Elias
I started a similar thread a while ago : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/176084-true-waf-speakers.html
: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/176084-true-waf-speakers.html
Aesthetically pleasing and WAF are not the same thing. WAF often means "I can't see them" the aesthetically pleasing means "I can't stop staring they are so beautiful".
Figure out the design from an optical point of view and reverse engineer it using your newly defined constraints. The engineers on this site will disagree, just ignore them, in fact always ignore the naysayers. Study it out, build it enjoy it.
I would sugesst that you want subtle curves and glossy paint for maximum wow effect.
Figure out the design from an optical point of view and reverse engineer it using your newly defined constraints. The engineers on this site will disagree, just ignore them, in fact always ignore the naysayers. Study it out, build it enjoy it.
I would sugesst that you want subtle curves and glossy paint for maximum wow effect.
Form should follow function, and the aesthetic is a result of a functional product. Im kinda the hybrid between the engineer and the artist. And get the best from both world, atleast thats what the teachers tells us
Forget about your teacher - he's tellin' crap ! - as did the ol' Greeks he is referring to.
Look at the NAO Note if you like to get an idea of a (acoustically) "non-compromise" OB speaker of small footprint.
As for going the hard route:
John Bsuch did pin it down - go with his advice, and vary where you feel for. The "OB gallery" thread can serve for additional ideas regarding aesthetics.
One thing you should be absolutely clear of: OB eats up space not because of its physical size but because it needs "room to breath". So calculate roughly 1/3 of your room being "occupied", possibly even more if you have small rooms.
Michael
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OKay, i have been looking around a bit, and i found some speakers that i like the "look" on. Unfortunatley, its car stereo speakers made for enclosures.
RockfordFosgate P2D410
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/assets/ProductImages/RockfordFosgate_P2D412.jpg
Reason i like them is becuse the backside is also "styled" and thats important since the rear of the speaker will be visible. If they sound good i got no idea about.
I also like the plain membrane, wich can be paintet.
Is it possible to get good driver who look similar to those?
Also, i have been doing some modeling on the baffle shape.
Good? Bad? to early to tell?
RockfordFosgate P2D410
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/assets/ProductImages/RockfordFosgate_P2D412.jpg
Reason i like them is becuse the backside is also "styled" and thats important since the rear of the speaker will be visible. If they sound good i got no idea about.
I also like the plain membrane, wich can be paintet.
Is it possible to get good driver who look similar to those?
Also, i have been doing some modeling on the baffle shape.
Good? Bad? to early to tell?
Attachments
but needing suitable support.
Rockford Fosgate potential
The P2D410 can be adapted and used in an OB application. However, the intended car audio design elements of this driver need to be considered, dealt with.
The main manufacturing goals for this kind of woofer is to make it look pretty, substantial and be able to take a lot of punishment in the very challenging automotive application environment. In other words you are spending a lot of money on performance abilities that do not help you much with how you intend to use it, OB wise.
The good design points are the Xmax, durability and that you like it's physical appearance.
On the negative, more Xmax than you really need (4-8 mm peak is plenty for the play back levels you intend assuming 2 woofers per channel). Very heavy cone (likely poor lower midrange performance). Weight. Relative low QTS (0.65-1.0 is considered ideal, but not manditory). Unneeded dual voice coil and very low efficiency (88-92 dbw is a bit easier to work with in a passive OB design).
Don't want to be too long here writing a critique on each of the positive and negative design aspects of this driver. It can be made to work, but it would involve quite a bit of added challenge. Generally speaking, with OB designs, simpler is better.
You had mentioned a preference for Seas drivers. A good, easy to use woofer would be the A26RE4.
This is a well known 10” driver. It is not perfect for OB, but is VERY easy to use. You will find out as your project progresses, that CROSSOVER is key to performance. It is 80% or more of the design work. I know that this seems strange, but it is so true. If you select drivers that are well matched to each other it makes the crossover SO much easier.
There will be those who disagree, that’s part of the fun and learning. And some will point out theA26RE4 does not have a lot of Xmax and a fairly low QTS. But I have used it and know it can deliver what you are after, again assuming your initial design goals are still in place. Speaking here about low to moderate play back levels in a domestic living room environment.
The P2D410 can be adapted and used in an OB application. However, the intended car audio design elements of this driver need to be considered, dealt with.
The main manufacturing goals for this kind of woofer is to make it look pretty, substantial and be able to take a lot of punishment in the very challenging automotive application environment. In other words you are spending a lot of money on performance abilities that do not help you much with how you intend to use it, OB wise.
The good design points are the Xmax, durability and that you like it's physical appearance.
On the negative, more Xmax than you really need (4-8 mm peak is plenty for the play back levels you intend assuming 2 woofers per channel). Very heavy cone (likely poor lower midrange performance). Weight. Relative low QTS (0.65-1.0 is considered ideal, but not manditory). Unneeded dual voice coil and very low efficiency (88-92 dbw is a bit easier to work with in a passive OB design).
Don't want to be too long here writing a critique on each of the positive and negative design aspects of this driver. It can be made to work, but it would involve quite a bit of added challenge. Generally speaking, with OB designs, simpler is better.
You had mentioned a preference for Seas drivers. A good, easy to use woofer would be the A26RE4.
This is a well known 10” driver. It is not perfect for OB, but is VERY easy to use. You will find out as your project progresses, that CROSSOVER is key to performance. It is 80% or more of the design work. I know that this seems strange, but it is so true. If you select drivers that are well matched to each other it makes the crossover SO much easier.
There will be those who disagree, that’s part of the fun and learning. And some will point out theA26RE4 does not have a lot of Xmax and a fairly low QTS. But I have used it and know it can deliver what you are after, again assuming your initial design goals are still in place. Speaking here about low to moderate play back levels in a domestic living room environment.
The no longer produced Ciare CS322S and CS382S are still sold here. I don't know whether you like the design.
Sub Woofer per Auto
Sub Woofer per Auto
Also, i have been doing some modeling on the baffle shape.
Good? Bad? to early to tell?
Too early to tell - but has nice appearance
and thats what you are after.Do not go with a material that does have a dominating sonic pattern - like pure metal for example.
Composite materials may work - you will have to try.
Wood and derivates do have sonic patterns too, but "rather" in a pleasing way.
From plastics, massive acryl is not that bad, PVC and derivats may sound rather "cheap".
YouTube - Resonantie
Think about it...
Michael
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Thx alot for all the feedback! Really nice to get some replies from ppl who knows what they talk about
Re: drivers
I have seen subs an midranges with aluminum membranes (klipsch?) and i like the look on those. Anyone know any options with alu?
The seas woofer seemes like a good choise yeh. The reviews i could find had good things to say about it. Tho im not sure on the "look", since its a very retro looking thing and i might not be able to pull that off in a good way. Dont know how well it would work to paint it IF i went with it? paint may ruin or destroy the membrane?
Im feeling that i need to either hide the speakers, or make a "statement" with them. Right now i think the later is the way to go, so the drivers should be visible so that it no doubt its a speaker, but a good looking and unusual one. Kinda
Re: materials
Im thinking about either fiberglass and kevlar, plywood, or corian. I have no idea about how corian is in terms or resonans tho, but the material itself is pretty awsome and would work well with the look i want to achieve. i have worked alot with fiberglass before, some with corian, and i know ppl who is awsome at plywood, so fabrication is not an issue
Im writing this from my phone so bear with me any auto-correct or spelling errors
Re: drivers
I have seen subs an midranges with aluminum membranes (klipsch?) and i like the look on those. Anyone know any options with alu?
The seas woofer seemes like a good choise yeh. The reviews i could find had good things to say about it. Tho im not sure on the "look", since its a very retro looking thing and i might not be able to pull that off in a good way. Dont know how well it would work to paint it IF i went with it? paint may ruin or destroy the membrane?
Im feeling that i need to either hide the speakers, or make a "statement" with them. Right now i think the later is the way to go, so the drivers should be visible so that it no doubt its a speaker, but a good looking and unusual one. Kinda
Re: materials
Im thinking about either fiberglass and kevlar, plywood, or corian. I have no idea about how corian is in terms or resonans tho, but the material itself is pretty awsome and would work well with the look i want to achieve. i have worked alot with fiberglass before, some with corian, and i know ppl who is awsome at plywood, so fabrication is not an issue
Im writing this from my phone so bear with me any auto-correct or spelling errors
Since you're norwegian you should of course use Seas drivers and IMHO the W26FX002 is the best looking and sexiest of them all and as you can see in the pic (borrowed from Troels) there are matching high frequency drivers too.
Two per side should play all the bass you need if you don't crank it up too earbleeding levels. It's not going to be cheap but they are really good drivers and very stylish!
Two per side should play all the bass you need if you don't crank it up too earbleeding levels. It's not going to be cheap but they are really good drivers and very stylish!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hey Randy - My congratulations to your creation there! Sweeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!
Thank you so much.. they were a blast to build and even more fun to listen to
WAF will depend on how "feminine" the speaker baffle is, make it taper from bottom to top and make the top rounder so that it blurs into the back ground, make it a neutral colour that has similar tones to the rest of the room and make sure the drivers cannot be seen by the female partner.
High WAF and good sound should not be mutually exclusive but they usually are.
High WAF and good sound should not be mutually exclusive but they usually are.
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