Evidence for what? I'm not making any claims about cables. Now you're claiming I am and am not producing evidence. May I have evidence for that claim?😀
Re-read your response to SY. It's quoted entirely in my post above.
You claim that SY has made an extraordinary claim in his simple, basic and accurate statement. Back it up.
Oh, that's easy. Your claim about how science progresses. You hadn't realised that was the claim I was asking about?😛
Indeed. At last agreement 🙂 And I've not in any place said that you have made claims about cables.
Clearly you haven't been paying attention. Just cite the place that I've claimed you've been making claims about cables without evidence. You'll be looking long and hard...😀
Which claim ? The one you just fabricated?😎
It is better to remain un-DBT'd and be thought a fool than to take a DBT and remove all doubt. 😉
Oh, SY has already disputed that its extraordinary, given his intended meaning of the word. So which meaning of 'extraordinary' are you using - his or mine? Or will you offer yet another meaning for it?
I take it from your statement above that you are unable (or perhaps unwilling) to make a distinction between a 'claim' and an 'observation'. For avoidance of doubt, the statement you're asking me to back up is the latter. Your statement that SY's statement is 'simple, basic and accurate' is however an example of the former - i.e. a claim for you to back up... I won't hold my breath 😀
Being and Nothingness
Objectivists cannot measure this phenomena. Subjectivists cannot demonstrate this. Science has not even named this property in cables that some people can hear. This really is leading edge?!?
Objectivists cannot measure this phenomena. Subjectivists cannot demonstrate this. Science has not even named this property in cables that some people can hear. This really is leading edge?!?
Once there was some sound reproduction gear. People connected it with cables. They liked what they heard and lived their happy lives. Then someone claimed: "I hear a difference when using different cables". The people that didn't hear any difference conducted some double blind tests to find the truth. Each and every blind test showed that no difference was audible. That was something the cable sound people didn't like. Instead of finding a method to show other people that there is an audible difference, they came up with a much better idea: "Why not go on claiming that there is an audible difference and make the others prove that there's none."
To be continued...
To be continued...
No not leading edge John, it's just that these gentlemen just have nothing better to do than argue about something they can't possibly prove. Shame really.
Why do you assume it can not be measured? All soundwaves can be measured therefore if you hear a difference, some measurement shows the difference.
These people were generally as violently against the notion as many here, and though generally technologists and hobbyists and tests weren't peer reviewed, there was a great cry. Victory! And from hence forth they called it science and proof of the intellectual and moral makeup of the 'cable listeners'.
But much of their earlier work was in Canada with govt funding. Toole doesn't impress me as anybody but a shrill for good sound. I think your characterization is ridiculous. After all, if Harmon thought $10,000 cables made a difference I am sure they would do the science to sell them with scientific research to back that. It is true they are a for profit organization. Are you and your cronies not the same?
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I have been around these discussions online (in other forums) for many years.
One thing I do know that there is education in between the banter, its there we just have to find it. I didnt understand it all but threads like this do clear up a lot of confusion.
If anything I think everyone should just be exposed to controlled listening tests. Anyone in Canada should check out NRC, In the US people should check out Harman's testing/listening faclities. Its simply and eye opener...or maybe ear openers 😉
The difference is that they publish and write books backed by many scientific facts (do you do that?). They were doing it BEFORE they sold anything. They offer books on audio that have zero to do with their company. They offer tons of data to back up their findings, they are simply trying to make audio less confusing for the masses....What are you trying to do for the audio world other then make profits?
You call Sean Olive a "Shill", how professional of you 🙄
Maybe your angry stems from their research point out some facts that goes against what you are trying to sell at extremely high prices....hmmm.
Im sure your popularity on this site will get me possibly banned for posting this but I do not see how you can call someone a "shill" and get away with it.
Mis-use of the word 'claimed'. More accurate to put 'someone described a difference when they changed to a different cable'.
Missing an important part of the story: The people who considered themselves 'objectivists' (called as such because they often objected to others hearing a difference when they knew there could be none) didn't take too kindly to those who said they heard differences. Perhaps there was the implication (unspoken but ever present) in what they said that they, the objectivists had cloth ears. So the objectivists decided to devise the DBT to put those who heard differences in their place. A few objectivists though were genuinely curious about the nature of the differences, if they existed at all.
Or ... perhaps it was something that the people who heard differences were confused by. Why would their clearly heard differences disappear under DBT conditions? Some said it was stress caused by testing. Others went as far to say that the switch boxes inherent in DBT were the culprit, they erased the differences.
Here, the narrative moves beyond the possibility of correction so I await the next installment🙂
abraxalito
People that hear the grass grow ARE special, I already knew that 🙂
P.S. You might want to look up the definition of the word "claim".
People that hear the grass grow ARE special, I already knew that 🙂
P.S. You might want to look up the definition of the word "claim".
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Shame is right.
The thread is a complete waste of time, and is just a vehicle for spouting ridicule and disrespect.
I think psychologists would be more interested in the content than engineers or physicists.
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