Thanks for the recommendation on the Obbligatos; I've never tried them myself but they come in price wise around the Sonicaps. If you've never tried the Sonicaps you should give them a whirl. I really like them and they are very well regarding on many of the forums I frequent (Head-fi, Audiocircle, and Audiogon). In several of the super long "every cap on the planet compared" threads they seem to go head to head with the V-cap teflons (which I've never heard either but I'm not likely to drop $100 on a cap!).
Have you tried any of the Russian EL84 variants in your amps? So far I've been impressed and they can be had a far site cheaper than the GL tubes.
I have Sonicap Gen 1 film caps in my Klipsch Forte II crossovers, and they made a huge improvement in the sound quality. I've never tried them in signal coupling applications. When I brought my Suppo amp to the San Francisco Vacuum Tube Users Group meeting (reference Post #130, http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tube...chinese-el84-pp-amp-cheap-13.html#post2076763), a lot of the people suggested that the amp sounded really good and probabaly just needed a coupling cap upgrade. I'm sure I could upgrade the OPTs as well, but that would require a new chassis which I really don't want to do. But for those willing to do it, I say go for it. As cheaply built as this amp is, it does sound good in stock form, and I think it sounds better with upgrades. Some of my objectives in buying this amp included using it as a test bed to try a few things like the Ampohm caps and the various tubes I've rolled so far.
I'll bring my upgraded amp to the next Vacuum Tube Users Group meeting and get some opinions. When I first brought the amp out, there were quite a few skeptics about how the little amp would sound. After auditioning it, I wouldn't be surprised if a few guys bought one themselves.
Bigjpop, if the Silmic IIs don't fit, I highly doubt the Black Gates would either. The Panasonic FM 220uF/25V electrolytic caps at 8mm diameter are the right size. The Elna Silmic IIs are 12.5mm diameter, and the Black Gate Standard 220uF/50V are 16mm diameter. I don't blame you for wanting to try the Black Gates, because I've had great results with them, but I think the Panasonic FMs are good alternatives in this application and they're cheaper. My first choice would have been the Elna Silmic IIs though.
I'll bring my upgraded amp to the next Vacuum Tube Users Group meeting and get some opinions. When I first brought the amp out, there were quite a few skeptics about how the little amp would sound. After auditioning it, I wouldn't be surprised if a few guys bought one themselves.
Bigjpop, if the Silmic IIs don't fit, I highly doubt the Black Gates would either. The Panasonic FM 220uF/25V electrolytic caps at 8mm diameter are the right size. The Elna Silmic IIs are 12.5mm diameter, and the Black Gate Standard 220uF/50V are 16mm diameter. I don't blame you for wanting to try the Black Gates, because I've had great results with them, but I think the Panasonic FMs are good alternatives in this application and they're cheaper. My first choice would have been the Elna Silmic IIs though.
Good point... hadn't even thought to measure the diameter! I would have been pretty disappointed to cough up the dough for those and not have them fit! My new chassis will be a little bigger but there's only so much room on the PCB.
Thanks for the heads up!
I replaced the cheap wire-wound resistors I'd temporarily installed to perform the triode mod with Kiwame's last night. I also swapped out the silver-plated wires which connected the FT3 teflon caps to the board for pure silver/teflon wire.
Result is a slight increase in smoothness & transparency. Nothing major, but by now the amp is sounding really, really good.
I'm basically content to keep it as it is for good unless I stumble upon some cheap NOS EL84 tubes at some point in future. 😀
Result is a slight increase in smoothness & transparency. Nothing major, but by now the amp is sounding really, really good.
I'm basically content to keep it as it is for good unless I stumble upon some cheap NOS EL84 tubes at some point in future. 😀
6p15 = el83?
Hello,
I just got my Suppo EL84 amp from a member here. I'm using the Suppo with a Yamaha C2a preamp. My Altec Valencia (8-16 ohm) are hooked up to the 8ohm outputs. My source is a midrange Yamaha TT and Shure V15II with NOS needle. Before any tube swapping , the sound was nice but not as nice as through my Fisher 800C. I'm getting less bass and highs. Channel separation and imaging were not as sharp. Maybe I need to let my preamp 'burn in' a little longer since I've just recapped the preamp a month ago.
I believe I have the 6P15 version of the amp. I tried some EL84s (6BQ5) but they didn't work. In fact, they were starting to red plate. I don't have any EL83s to try. Does anyone else out there own a 6P15 version of this amp? What other power tubes can be used in place of the stock ones? Better yet, can I easily modify this amp to use EL84s? I have a bunch of them. Then I tried various driver tubes. I got good results with Amperes PQ 7308. They increased the clarity from top to bottom and they also increased the stereo imaging. I believe this setup comes very close to my Fisher. So, can I mod this amp to use EL84s?
Regards,
David
Hello,
I just got my Suppo EL84 amp from a member here. I'm using the Suppo with a Yamaha C2a preamp. My Altec Valencia (8-16 ohm) are hooked up to the 8ohm outputs. My source is a midrange Yamaha TT and Shure V15II with NOS needle. Before any tube swapping , the sound was nice but not as nice as through my Fisher 800C. I'm getting less bass and highs. Channel separation and imaging were not as sharp. Maybe I need to let my preamp 'burn in' a little longer since I've just recapped the preamp a month ago.
I believe I have the 6P15 version of the amp. I tried some EL84s (6BQ5) but they didn't work. In fact, they were starting to red plate. I don't have any EL83s to try. Does anyone else out there own a 6P15 version of this amp? What other power tubes can be used in place of the stock ones? Better yet, can I easily modify this amp to use EL84s? I have a bunch of them. Then I tried various driver tubes. I got good results with Amperes PQ 7308. They increased the clarity from top to bottom and they also increased the stereo imaging. I believe this setup comes very close to my Fisher. So, can I mod this amp to use EL84s?
Regards,
David
Hmmm, I'm fairly sure there is only one version of this amp (a couple options on the website but that's only for a different power transformer) and I'm pretty sure everyone that's been using it hasn't had any problems with EL84 tubes. Very strange...
Differences between 6P15 and 6P14 tubes
Thanks for the reply bigjpop. In your first post in this thread you wrote:
"]"The website says there is a lot of flexibility in the tube complement so I'm trying some of the "odd balls." I just ordered a stack of NOS Russian tubes from ebay (cut and pasted below):
6P15P-EV = EL83 = SV83
6P14P-ER = 7189 = 6BQ5 = EL84M
6N23P-EV = 6N23P-EB = E88CC = 6DJ8
6N1P-EB = E88CC = 6DJ8 = 6922"[/SIZE]
So, the suppo amp can use any of these tubes? So, why does my amp not work with the 6BQ5 EL84? I do have 2 EL83s. I will try them on one channel tonight. I hope I don't blow anything up. Again, I have no problems with the stock tubes. I believe they're 6P15s, and they do sound pretty good with 7308 drivers. Does anyone know what the differences are between the 6P15 and 6P14 tubes?
Regards,
David
Thanks for the reply bigjpop. In your first post in this thread you wrote:
"]"The website says there is a lot of flexibility in the tube complement so I'm trying some of the "odd balls." I just ordered a stack of NOS Russian tubes from ebay (cut and pasted below):
6P15P-EV = EL83 = SV83
6P14P-ER = 7189 = 6BQ5 = EL84M
6N23P-EV = 6N23P-EB = E88CC = 6DJ8
6N1P-EB = E88CC = 6DJ8 = 6922"[/SIZE]
So, the suppo amp can use any of these tubes? So, why does my amp not work with the 6BQ5 EL84? I do have 2 EL83s. I will try them on one channel tonight. I hope I don't blow anything up. Again, I have no problems with the stock tubes. I believe they're 6P15s, and they do sound pretty good with 7308 drivers. Does anyone know what the differences are between the 6P15 and 6P14 tubes?
Regards,
David
I just got my info from the Suppo website, but as far as I know all those tubes should work. In my other thread on the EL34 amp from Suppo, Joe @ Suppo Audio seems to be a little more "generous" when it comes to viable subs for tubes than most other people but I believe everyone else using this amp is using EL84 tubes instead of the stock 6P15 tubes. I'm still using the stock power tubes because I've been spending my time rolling the driver tubes and unfortunately I don't get much listening time these days (getting ready to move).
Anyway, maybe post some pics of your tube glow issues and some of the guys here that know much more than I do can comment.
Anyway, maybe post some pics of your tube glow issues and some of the guys here that know much more than I do can comment.
by the way, 6P15 is really NOT the same as EL83, first i thought that, too for a project, then i found, it must be treated different at least G2. EL84 is complete different. SV83 should be the same
The most important bit with trying different tubes is the pinout. Will the grids get connected to the right pins on the valve base, will the anode and cathode be on the right pins, will the heater pins end up connected correctly. Will the transformer handle the heater current. Then, what is the max anode voltage the new proposed tube will take, does the B+ exceed this voltage? If the amp is set up as pentode, will the screen voltage be OK? If these questions cannot be answered, then it is not wise to change tube type unless someone you trust who knows your amp says its OK. I have found situations where the recommended driver tube has been exchanged for another different type with good results. Why? I don't know, but I have found significant improvements in sound quality by trying different driver tubes. I have also found bad sound by trying different drivers.
pinout
what is that: the most important is the pinout example: ECC88 can take 130V max plate, the E88CC over 200V. sorry the statement not correct. conclusion: lets blow up tubes then. never see a statement like that
what is that: the most important is the pinout example: ECC88 can take 130V max plate, the E88CC over 200V. sorry the statement not correct. conclusion: lets blow up tubes then. never see a statement like that
btw: speakers are the weakest components in an audio chain, also in THD. THD in bass is easily > 10%. who takes care of that?
I'm with Fran, I don't think they are the same ;-)
6N23P, 6N23P-EV (6H23n, 6H23n-EB) Web page
6N1P, 6N1PVI, 6N1PEV/EB PDF
Plate curves for the 6N23 and 6N1P are different as are the specified max current, plate dissipation and anode voltage. The 6N23P is supposed to be a 6DJ8.
I've seen a lot of claims that the 6N1P is a 6DJ8, but I think that comes from marketing them on ebay to boost the price.
I've yet to find a good fit for the 6N1P (in a B9A format) but I have seen it compared to a 6SN7 electrically.
6N1P-EV:
http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/113/6/6N1PEV.pdf
6N23P-EV:
http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/112/6/6N23PEV.pdf
I've seen a lot of claims that the 6N1P is a 6DJ8, but I think that comes from marketing them on ebay to boost the price.
I've yet to find a good fit for the 6N1P (in a B9A format) but I have seen it compared to a 6SN7 electrically.
6N1P-EV:
http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/113/6/6N1PEV.pdf
6N23P-EV:
http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/112/6/6N23PEV.pdf
Humming away
I received mine today and I plugged it in right away. Smile stayed away from my face as the amp has very loud hum in the right channel with some scrathing sounds when adjusting the volume. Strangely there's ''noise free'' space between 9 am and 3 pm. Any ideas how to resolve this issue with zero experince on what lies beneath the tubes?
I received mine today and I plugged it in right away. Smile stayed away from my face as the amp has very loud hum in the right channel with some scrathing sounds when adjusting the volume. Strangely there's ''noise free'' space between 9 am and 3 pm. Any ideas how to resolve this issue with zero experince on what lies beneath the tubes?
Some people have had problems with the volume control potentiometer in these amps. Replacing it with a quality item (e.g. ALPS) seems to help a lot. Someone who is experienced with a soldering iron can do this quite easily for you.
I took my Suppo to an professional and at first everything seemed fine, but further testing revealed oscillation in the right channel. So, quite substantial mods are required: additional caps to prevent oscillation, new potentiometer, fuse etc.
Hi Kristian,
I experienced some form of oscillation as well with the stock unit. I could see the speaker driver in my Fostex monitor on the right channel moving in and out with an oscillating pop sound until I turned the volume up a bit. I also had poor balance between both channels, and replaced the volume pot. After that, everything was fine.
Now for an update on my amp... I believe the Ampohm caps are finally settling in after many hours of playing music and hearing the good and bad that comes with burning in caps. Last night, I listened to Patricia Barber's "A Fortnight in Paris," and I was treated to a great performance in my listening room. I am tempted to try the triode mode mod, but working with the Suppo's PCB is somewhat difficult. Considering that I paid about $300 in tubes and some replacement parts, I still feel I got a good deal.
I just purchased Tubelab's Simple P-P amp board, and I will be building it as an EL84 amp. Assembling the BOM, I am already at $200 and I haven't even added output transformers yet. Even with budget OPTs, I think the Simple P-P will be a significantly better amplifier. For one, the actual circuit board and schematic match up. Once it's built, I will compare it to the Suppo GV.
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