The issue here is not to keep a conversation going,but to keep a conversation fair.My English is no where near as good as yours,but when someone is presented as peeking,this does not have to do with English,it is simply an insult.The worse is that he who says that others are peeking happens to be a few thousands of miles away.Even worse?I haven't heard any of you to tell these gentlemen that they may be at least unfair.
Precisely. If reasoning was used, the absurdity of the argument that "psychology can't explain everything" when we are specifically concerned with the psychological component of "hearing"....would have been obvious. Thanks for reaffirming.
SY has kindly answered this already. Do google it as suggested. Knowledge is the enemy of ignorance.
So let's see if I have this right. After 4 years of lurking, you are so discomforted by your faith being blasphemed by non-believers like me, that you are forced to post for the first time.....Because you don't care?😕
So you claim. Evidence?
I have beaten Usain Bolt by running a 9.4 second 100m dash too, while relaxed on my backyard track. But it will never be before an audience or reported on. Due to test "pressure".
I will be extremely insulted if you don't believe me, or worst, accuse me of just imagining things.
Absolutely. Lurking for years and keeping that stuff all pent up isn't healthy for you. Glad you could finally let it out. I guess my only question is, how long before you endlessly beg and harass the moderators to silence the heretic by banning? 😀
cheers,
AJ
p.s. care to test yourself on wire directionality? No one here seems to have any confidence in their claimed listening capabilities. How about you?
I'm sorry Panicos. Peeking for me is like taking a quick look, a peek. Instead of taking a long hard look. I'm lost now.
May I do a suggestion? Mayby we can avoid these useless exchanges by trying to understand what our partner is trying to say rather than to dissect each and every word. I'd rather attack ideas instead of words.
Unless I am mistaken, the idea here was that a person (probably JC) admitted that he can only hear a difference if he can see the items. If he can take a peek, so to say.
Can we agree to leave this behind us? Do you have any comments on the idea as such? I would think that's on topic here.
jd
@ janneman,
i´s assume that panicos takes the "peeking idea" as an insult, because it says implicit that a test could have been only correct if SY or somebody else were present.
Panicos has desribed his blind test, and that they got positive results in it. So to assume "peeking" must have happen implies that they were not able to do a correct test.
Wishes
i´s assume that panicos takes the "peeking idea" as an insult, because it says implicit that a test could have been only correct if SY or somebody else were present.
Panicos has desribed his blind test, and that they got positive results in it. So to assume "peeking" must have happen implies that they were not able to do a correct test.
Wishes
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Actually the idea here was not it.It was when Andre talked about insults(post#10914)and you asked him "when? " (post#10915).I am one of those who were "accused" they were peeking some time ago when I shared with you some results from our tests here.I wish I hadn't.I'm not playing with words,I'm just sad because of the attitude of anyone who uses such insults,especially when this person seems to be a respected one,but thousands of miles away.As for the meaning of the word,I have checked it in my dictionary thanks🙂
Other than the above,yes we can leave it behind....till the next time 🙂
After reading his first description of his test, do you seriously accept that it was blind or even close to blind? That's the problem with a test set up and administered by the participants themselves, none of whom have experience in sensory testing. They had a nice, fun day with their audio buddies, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Hi Jakob,
In fact I feel that "peeking"implied that we were cheating,not we were not able to do a correct test.Not to be able to do a correct test could be a possibility.To imply that we cheated,is the insult.Can SY tell me if I ever gave him any reason to feel so free so as to use these comments for me and my friends,other that he was not present in our test?
I was refering to the directionality test mostly. I think there the DUTs could be made indistinguishable and independent of equipment enough to allow open ended unmonitored listening.
I see this is waking up some new voices. Don't strong proponents of both sides ever get together? The few times I have listened with reviewers for some of the magazines what went on was laughable.
This is beginning to remind me of some of the wine controversies. I mean deleted threads, banned posters, the whole same thing (including threatened lawsuits). Gee just sitting down and tasting the same bottle and end of story. Turley Zin
.Unfortunately SY and friends let the cause down in a famous taste off. 😀
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True,some things are new to me as far as tests go,buthow do you know what the other two friends know or don't know?After the first test on power cables(that's the one I have described)and after you and others told me that it would be better to leave the room during the swaps,that is how the next four tests on interconnects were done.You also told me that the number of swaps was small,so in the next tests we went for 10.
As for having a nice,fun day?We sure did.Since then,we haven't heard of anything more "professional" from anyone here,except that the test you promote happens to be identical to our unprofessional one.
Now,how far from blind do you find the last ones after we have followed your instructions?We are ready to do some more.
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@ SY,
i did only try to explain to janneman where the problem might be.
BTW, you are much quicker/better in asking than in answering, aren´t you?
@ panicos,
in fact i meant "cheating" with "not correct" but missed the proper wording. 🙂
Wishes
i did only try to explain to janneman where the problem might be.
BTW, you are much quicker/better in asking than in answering, aren´t you?
@ panicos,
in fact i meant "cheating" with "not correct" but missed the proper wording. 🙂
Wishes
That's a rather bizarre statement in a nearly 11000 post thread involving audiophiles.
He doesn't. He has chosen to do so and you deliberately (but understandably) misrepresent his reason. He has a strong desire to prove that he (and assumable, but not necessarily, others) can "hear" wires for other than known electrical and psychological reasons. He knows that the only valid and scientific method for doing so is under controlled conditions, where imagination will not be the key factor.
And very much unlike you and the others, he is willing to walk the walk, not just talk the talk - which anyone with a keyboard can do.
Ah, the old victimization angle eh? No evidence to present? Play the poor victim diversion.
What do you "have better" than my reproduction chain chain? I told you I use Mogami wire to connect a mix of home and some 90's era pro equipment (including DBX, Lexicon). What do you have that is "better"...and why?
My speakers have been heard at DIY meets by several members here. Have yours?
You brag about your "hearing" like dbe and others, while throwing insults at the rationalists about "hear nothing".
Well here are snapshots of my "hear nothing" ability:
2001 Toshiba laptop soundcard/Sony MDR-V150 ($20 at Target)
M-Audio MobilePre/Shure E2C
Yours? dbe's, Panicos et al???
Any evidence or just claims?
cheers,
AJ
Just for the record ......(?)
When I used to compare different cables for a biwire system , it appeared to me that I could hear differences when the switch was done without much delay ( less than 30 sec ).
However when I listend to them alternately with big time gaps of say 1/2 an hour I couldn't say reliably what I was listening to ! Is my memory poor or the differences were due to other reasons ?
I'm current on my fourth glass of wine and thoroughly enjoying the music playing on my system ( and can't even guess what cables are on it right now !) and am in a great mood. That's why I ventured on to this war zone....hich !
Right now it doesn't matter a ***t what cables are on !😀
PS. A progressive dose of good hooch exponentially negates the need for exotic cabling and components !...hich...!
When I used to compare different cables for a biwire system , it appeared to me that I could hear differences when the switch was done without much delay ( less than 30 sec ).
However when I listend to them alternately with big time gaps of say 1/2 an hour I couldn't say reliably what I was listening to ! Is my memory poor or the differences were due to other reasons ?
I'm current on my fourth glass of wine and thoroughly enjoying the music playing on my system ( and can't even guess what cables are on it right now !) and am in a great mood. That's why I ventured on to this war zone....hich !
Right now it doesn't matter a ***t what cables are on !😀
PS. A progressive dose of good hooch exponentially negates the need for exotic cabling and components !...hich...!
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Many years ago,I was in audio sales.Among the things we were selling there were at least three high end brands of cables.From all the customers who visited the store for cables,more than 90% left with much cheaper cables than the ones they wanted because they were recommended in audio magazines.This,because I insisted they sit and listen.The other 10% insisted on their original decisions.I believe I have "saved" more people than many non-believers did here🙂
Panicos, lets clarify something. Whereas the rationalists are unified in their message about the scientific method and the validity (and necessity) of blind testing, the believers seem to be in complete disarray, JC and others in abject denial of them. What is the consensus? Are SBT/DBT's the valid method...or not. If SBT/DBT's are the valid method, must they not be conducted strictly, robustly and by knowledgeable experts (like Jakob2 and Jon Risch, except with declassified results) who know all the pitfalls of sloppy testing?
Which is it?
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Yes,but that doesn't give Jakob2 and Jon Risch any right to call anyone who did an honest effort(better than nothing here so far),like me or my friends any names.Jakob2's position is clear on this I think,see a few posts earlier.
Politeness has never harmed anyone 🙂
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