I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

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You would start with measurements dictate accuracy, the least alteration of the signal and the least amount of distortion is a good start.

Everything else is just coloration and preferences and totally subjective based on individual needs and accuracy actually has no part in this but if you are coloring your sound because you like it, its not accurate 😉

I have been in $200K rooms, I listened to all the details and hours worth of subjective blah, blah, blah from the owners. They explained why the sound is superior and accurate (Sadly, they sound like the marketing spin from Wilson)
We brought some simple measuring tools to just show the owners they simply like coloration and it has nothing to do with accuracy. I then asked why didnt have some sort of in room treatments to control some of the decay and what about the null at 250Hz.

His ears didnt tell them those are problems.

Its pretty simple with me....We use our ears and brains to enjoy an audio experiences. We use science and measurements to try and improve our setups to our level of expectations. If someone has never done measurements to figure out the unknowns how can they call themselves audio experts (posting online in a DIY/science forum like they are)?

I do not dissagree with what you say.I just don't understand still,how "accurate" recorded electric instruments are.Also I admit that my system might not be "accurate",but I like it's "accuracy" 🙂
 
I do not dissagree with what you say.I just don't understand still,how "accurate" recorded electric instruments are.Also I admit that my system might not be "accurate",but I like it's "accuracy" 🙂

Im not sure about your point here....are you asking about the accuracy of the recording itself? I would say we have what we have, how its recorded is totally out of our control. A crap recording is going to sound like crap, I have no control over that.

I like the last point 😀 Absolutely, we should be able to do anything we want with out setups. We have only ourselves to please.
 
You would start with measurements dictate accuracy, the least alteration of the signal and the least amount of distortion is a good start.

What measure of distortion?

At least in speakers, it has been scientifically verified (althou not independently/rigoursly confirmed AFAIK) that the most common distortion measurement -- THD -- has no correlation with how a speaker sounds.

dave
 
Try this link. It will want to download the PDF file to your computer.

Thanx Bud, that link works.

(just selecting & copying a URL out of a post most often doesn't work because the forum truncates the displayed text in the middle (http://xxx...yyy) to make it take up less space)

A countrol click or right mouse click to copy the link to the clipboard works.

dave
 
What measure of distortion?

At least in speakers, it has been scientifically verified (althou not independently/rigoursly confirmed AFAIK) that the most common distortion measurement -- THD -- has no correlation with how a speaker sounds.

dave

really? I would like to read more.

I thought atleast odd order harmonics can be audiable and are the important harmonics to look at.
 
Google Earle Geddes and Lydia Lee. They performed the THD vs preference test.

To be precise, it's not that distortion isn't detectable/perceptible, it's that it doesn't correlate with user subjective preference. i.e. a speaker with distortion can be preferred over a distortion free speaker that is afflicted with some other deficiency.
 
It seems like mocking to me but I will consider your point of view. Im happy that you believe measurements matter and its a great point about measurements atleast backing up with you hear.

It would be foolish to mock measurements, just as it is foolish to mock the abilities of our ears / brain, in fact all that really matters is how we hear (perceive) sound. Saying that we can not hear a dip at some freq may be so, but since our ears are all that we have to perceive sound, does it really matter then? Again not saying we shouldn't measure for errors, it can only make things better but at the same time there are aspects that we are sensitive to that get neglected just because it is difficult to measure.

I agree that what we process and conclude from what hear is very difficult to measure but measurements are not suspose to replace those conclusions either.

Exactly.

and I would also post that what you process and conclude from your ears is different then what you actually heard, is that so difficult to understand?

Never claimed otherwise, in fact I'm sure our ears detect far more information than what we are aware of, training can increase our awareness of what were detected by our ears.

btw, This forum is never just about hifi and listening to music either. This is an audio DIY forum, I didnt read anywhere were its specific about just hifi and just listening to music. Maybe its just me I actually believe this forum to be actually about building speakers, learning how to build speakers and learning about all the science behind speakers. You shouldn't generalize and think is all about your very specific world.

Sorry, my mistake, I was under the impression that we design and build speakers to listen to music on our hi-fi systems. 😕
 
I think you are bending the truth a bit. 😀

Cables sound different from each other and most of the time you will find the same signature on different systems. The only thing that is system dependent is whether the properties of a cable will suit that system as well as your preferences.

A good cable on a flawed system may sound worse than a poorly made cable just because it may hide the deficiencies of the system, you would not like a silver cable on a system with harsh tops.

Hi again. So silver lets the highs through better than copper. And I guess that anyone who doesn't like silver has a system that is faulty in the highs department. This makes sense and if true I would expect everyone to agree with this observation. Anyway you are agreeing with my original point that cables do not have a sound, they just prevent or allow you to hear what the other components sound like. Of course it is not all about the highs, what does silver do for the lows?
Cheers
 
Hi again. So silver lets the highs through better than copper. And I guess that anyone who doesn't like silver has a system that is faulty in the highs department. This makes sense and if true I would expect everyone to agree with this observation. Anyway you are agreeing with my original point that cables do not have a sound, they just prevent or allow you to hear what the other components sound like. Of course it is not all about the highs, what does silver do for the lows?
Cheers

My view of cables: All cables have a negative influence on SQ, the better the cable, the less the influence.

I found good silver cables to allow for (is that better? 🙂 ) cleaner, more defined and detailled sound from LF to HF. Pity they are so expensive.
 
And I guess that anyone who doesn't like silver has a system that is faulty in the highs department.

You are looking at it the wrong way..

If silver lets through more highs, and if a speaker is built and designed and measured with copper, then it would incorrect when using silver. It is not the speaker that is faulty, it is the combination of that speaker with silver that is faulty.
 
I think more important is to know if using silver will enhance or detract from a speaker, and unfortunately, because we all have different rooms, different ears and different sound processing equipment, there is really only one way to find out.

I did have silver (QED) in a couple of my systems, but I replaced them with other stuff (light blue covered copper from Jaycar, 'Supra' iirc) and I'm pretty sure I prefer the copper.
Its a pita to do some swapping though, so I'm sticking with the copper.
 
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