Hi IAN01,
I don't want to discourage you, but when I got mine 7550 it had a faulty CDM module. Actually it was the motor's problem. Does the CD spins at all? I had a spare CDM-1 and managed to revive this beauty.
I don't want to discourage you, but when I got mine 7550 it had a faulty CDM module. Actually it was the motor's problem. Does the CD spins at all? I had a spare CDM-1 and managed to revive this beauty.
On those old the first think is to change caps.
Look this:
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This table is for nichicon caps used in this Philipses but it stands for the most caps produced after 1980.
Now after more than 20 years you have to change EVERY cap (lytics)!
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At this work you can change a lot more like regulators, better diodes (byv26c soft)...
Change also the aged tin solder with lead. Disolder everythink you see and take a good solder with silver. All other things to do like gripplets, groundloop ASO you can read in this thread.
For the problem wich was first descibed by JeroenR - the "diggediggeliegg" between tracks, noise while skipping and pause: I can't solve this with direkt DAC out for a tube stage with only a R50 from signal to ground. Trying a muting like on the 16 bit decoder between SAA7210 and 7220. I throw the towel. For me it's better to steal the signal at the op-amp pin 2 + 3 and cut everything after on decoder-board for tube. After the extern tubestage with two ECL86 i try a single ECC82 build in.
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But I do not believe the whole work am really worth after trying the tap from tubee to take a THS4032 Op-amp. It`s really ok and much easier to do.
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I conecct the cable for the RCA at the new decouplingcaps and disconnect the following second reedrelais you can see right at the pic and the smd RC's downunder.
StefanAC said:
A discrete output stage seems still another attempt worth. Someone told me to give the BURSON a try.
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Did somebody already make this Burson op-amps with experiences?
Or with this much cheaper Audio-gd Discrete OPA?
Or with fetishizator?
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Yes, the CD still spins up, just fails to read the TOC so I don't think its the motor. Once it starts working it will run continuously after that till you switch it off and leave it a day.
I agree, I suspect at least some capacitors must be struggling after 20+ years as you say
I will try and take some voltage and signal readings first with the unit in fail mode and see if there are any obvious indicators and take it from there. I have a manual for the CD104 so I suspect the CD304 is not that different, especially on the area around the CD mechanism.
Thanks for the great response guys
Maybe there are two another things to do when there are problems.
Tantalums on the servoboard
Laser probably defectively
Tantalums on the servoboard
Laser probably defectively
I searched for a long time, but all links are broken.
Can someone please mail a datasheet for cd304mk2? … or also for a comparable 16bit Philips?
Can someone please mail a datasheet for cd304mk2? … or also for a comparable 16bit Philips?
I have a pdf
Nice to hear you tried the THS opamp.
I just modded slightly a CDM-0 CD 300, removed all caps in PS, discovered the 5V reg is getting very hot even after better cooling paste. I will probally use a resistor to relieve the reg some.
Will try the THS in too, a NE5532 is very muddy sounding, a LM4562 some better but still not on par with my TDA1541 machines. I a sure a TDA1540 can deliver more music. To be honest it is not liquid sounding, but coloured and with harsch peaks in mids. I use a MKP starter cap as output C. Drilled some solid RCA sockets on the back instead of the wires.
The treble is cleared up a lot though with my mods, knowing it is only 14 bits.
Nice to hear you tried the THS opamp.
I just modded slightly a CDM-0 CD 300, removed all caps in PS, discovered the 5V reg is getting very hot even after better cooling paste. I will probally use a resistor to relieve the reg some.
Will try the THS in too, a NE5532 is very muddy sounding, a LM4562 some better but still not on par with my TDA1541 machines. I a sure a TDA1540 can deliver more music. To be honest it is not liquid sounding, but coloured and with harsch peaks in mids. I use a MKP starter cap as output C. Drilled some solid RCA sockets on the back instead of the wires.
The treble is cleared up a lot though with my mods, knowing it is only 14 bits.
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Can you please sent it to post at nanocamp de?
After hearing the THS now a view days i love it more and more. I ordered some more and will try it in some other equipment. On the cd304 there are no lytics for decoupling the opamps. Maybe it's the s(h)ame at other 1540 boards like cd 300. I spent there 100 uF oscon for each + and - 12V and 100 nF MKT between pin 4 and 8.
In the cd650 thread they spent some extra 5V regulators. First at the hot SAA7220. If the SAA7030 was left for the 1540 it is a good idea here too. They take discrete ones, because of the cost i will take good 7805 for some fresch opened 304mk2. Than the opamp +-12 and the DAC +-5 gets extra regs too. The -15 at the DAC (1541) need not.
A MKP not from the big and expensive ones was my first choice outcap too. At this time i try some lytics like philips it does but premiums. I'm not sure yet, i thougt they have more soul ...
After hearing the THS now a view days i love it more and more. I ordered some more and will try it in some other equipment. On the cd304 there are no lytics for decoupling the opamps. Maybe it's the s(h)ame at other 1540 boards like cd 300. I spent there 100 uF oscon for each + and - 12V and 100 nF MKT between pin 4 and 8.
In the cd650 thread they spent some extra 5V regulators. First at the hot SAA7220. If the SAA7030 was left for the 1540 it is a good idea here too. They take discrete ones, because of the cost i will take good 7805 for some fresch opened 304mk2. Than the opamp +-12 and the DAC +-5 gets extra regs too. The -15 at the DAC (1541) need not.
A MKP not from the big and expensive ones was my first choice outcap too. At this time i try some lytics like philips it does but premiums. I'm not sure yet, i thougt they have more soul ...
Philips CD304 MKII service manual
Hello tubee,
Can you mail me the service manual for the CD304 MKII as well, please? I got one last week and already did some modifications to it and it would make my life easier for what is still to come. The mail address is stefan.runge AT post.rwth-aachen.de.
Currently, I am working with a CD104 (complete), a CD204 (incomplete), a CD304 (incomplete) and a CD960 (complete) manual. If you have a complete CD204 manual as well it would be very much appreciated.
My CD304 MKII came with a badly scratched faceplate, none working buttons (they look like having been cooked - the plastic is deformed and too small for the metal sheets which have no more black paint on them) – but it was cheap and electrically and mechanically in pretty good condition.
So I decided to make a CD204/CD304 MKII hybrid with my spare CD204 which has a broken decoder and servo board (the seller was too daft to pack it properly). Out go the CD304 MKII faceplate and display PCB (with remote capability) and in goes the CD204 faceplate and display PCB. And the transformers have to be changed as well as the CD304 MKII needs 36V for its display while the CD204 uses 24V. For me, that is a good move as I prefer the look of the CD204 with its cleaner design and fewer buttons.
The changes I already did are:
• New caps in power supply with double capacity and higher voltage rating (Panasonic FC),
• Dealing with the ground loops on the power supply board,
• Replacing the blue Philips caps on all boards with Panasonic FC of higher value and voltage rating,
• Replacing the tantalum caps with Wima MKS2 of same value and higher voltage rating,
• Changing the NE5532 to OPA2134 in sockets with a 100nF cap between + and – rails,
• Replacing the output decoupling caps with Wima MKS2 6,8uF (an interims solution as I am out of proper MKPs and the MKS2 fit nicely in the old mounting positions)
• Bridging the muting transistors with solid core wire and de-soldering the muting circuit and the associated power supply and
• Re-soldering all griplets and all cold joints.
And now a question: what is the function of the 7808 on the decoder board? It just adds + 8 VDC to the signal out of the DAC before it reaches the op-amps. Does that shift the op-amps into class A operation or is there any other functionality?
Best regards,
StefanAC
Hello tubee,
Can you mail me the service manual for the CD304 MKII as well, please? I got one last week and already did some modifications to it and it would make my life easier for what is still to come. The mail address is stefan.runge AT post.rwth-aachen.de.
Currently, I am working with a CD104 (complete), a CD204 (incomplete), a CD304 (incomplete) and a CD960 (complete) manual. If you have a complete CD204 manual as well it would be very much appreciated.
My CD304 MKII came with a badly scratched faceplate, none working buttons (they look like having been cooked - the plastic is deformed and too small for the metal sheets which have no more black paint on them) – but it was cheap and electrically and mechanically in pretty good condition.
So I decided to make a CD204/CD304 MKII hybrid with my spare CD204 which has a broken decoder and servo board (the seller was too daft to pack it properly). Out go the CD304 MKII faceplate and display PCB (with remote capability) and in goes the CD204 faceplate and display PCB. And the transformers have to be changed as well as the CD304 MKII needs 36V for its display while the CD204 uses 24V. For me, that is a good move as I prefer the look of the CD204 with its cleaner design and fewer buttons.
The changes I already did are:
• New caps in power supply with double capacity and higher voltage rating (Panasonic FC),
• Dealing with the ground loops on the power supply board,
• Replacing the blue Philips caps on all boards with Panasonic FC of higher value and voltage rating,
• Replacing the tantalum caps with Wima MKS2 of same value and higher voltage rating,
• Changing the NE5532 to OPA2134 in sockets with a 100nF cap between + and – rails,
• Replacing the output decoupling caps with Wima MKS2 6,8uF (an interims solution as I am out of proper MKPs and the MKS2 fit nicely in the old mounting positions)
• Bridging the muting transistors with solid core wire and de-soldering the muting circuit and the associated power supply and
• Re-soldering all griplets and all cold joints.
And now a question: what is the function of the 7808 on the decoder board? It just adds + 8 VDC to the signal out of the DAC before it reaches the op-amps. Does that shift the op-amps into class A operation or is there any other functionality?
Best regards,
StefanAC
I hit the cancel-mail button right now. 🙂
Agreed i like the looks of the cd300 and cd880 a lot more then the cd304(mkII) rather old fashioned looking and with a lot of ribs and different button orientations.
To be honest i like the cd300 the most. Maybe i could fiddle in a PMD100 with a proper dac behind it. But the cd880 is the fastest and has best laser reading, and remote control as the 304.
The 304 has the best CDM, and the upperbest looking player would have a acryllic case with a view on that masterpiece.
The assume the 7808 levels the output to dc 8 V for better signal transfer, or to align the output of the dac/input of opamp to a certain dc level for symmetric operation?? not sure though. I my cd640 is this done in an other way.
Agreed i like the looks of the cd300 and cd880 a lot more then the cd304(mkII) rather old fashioned looking and with a lot of ribs and different button orientations.
To be honest i like the cd300 the most. Maybe i could fiddle in a PMD100 with a proper dac behind it. But the cd880 is the fastest and has best laser reading, and remote control as the 304.
The 304 has the best CDM, and the upperbest looking player would have a acryllic case with a view on that masterpiece.
The assume the 7808 levels the output to dc 8 V for better signal transfer, or to align the output of the dac/input of opamp to a certain dc level for symmetric operation?? not sure though. I my cd640 is this done in an other way.
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Hello tubee,
I agree with you on the look oft the CD300, but the CD880 has even more buttons than the CD304. It is almost like a Sony 😉!
But is has a PCB akin to a Sony Esprit as well, which should be regarded as a major compliment.
Lookswise, my favorite from the whole Philips/Marantz range is a CD94 – unfortunately, a good one is too expensive for me right now. So I stick with the second best for now – the CD204. Plastic front but only a few buttons – I seem to have some kind of strange taste 😀!
Otherwise, the Grundig CD-9000 and CD-903 are some fine looking pieces of kit. Combining a CD-903 with the CDM1 MKII (same as in CD880) which I have been given a few years ago would make a fine combination…
Concerning the 7806, it is used for partial offset correction. The CD304 MKII uses this +8V source and 2k2 and 2k7 resistors in series to inject about 1.6mA into the signal (which has a -2mA offset). I have no idea why the Philips designers left some offset uncorrected and we still need some decoupling caps. They apparently did the same in the CD960 and CD94, too.
Right now, I have the problem of making my hybrids work. On the CD304 MKII with CD204 display all lights are on and indicate an error while on the CD204 with CD304 MKII display, there is no display function at all 😕. The powersupplies have been adapted to suit the different displays, so that should not be the fault. My guess is some different software in the control IC – the CD304 MKII uses a MAB 8441P T016 while the CD204 has a MAB 8440P D041. Maybe I will just change those ICs as they are in sockets.
Best regards,
StefanAC
I agree with you on the look oft the CD300, but the CD880 has even more buttons than the CD304. It is almost like a Sony 😉!
But is has a PCB akin to a Sony Esprit as well, which should be regarded as a major compliment.
Lookswise, my favorite from the whole Philips/Marantz range is a CD94 – unfortunately, a good one is too expensive for me right now. So I stick with the second best for now – the CD204. Plastic front but only a few buttons – I seem to have some kind of strange taste 😀!
Otherwise, the Grundig CD-9000 and CD-903 are some fine looking pieces of kit. Combining a CD-903 with the CDM1 MKII (same as in CD880) which I have been given a few years ago would make a fine combination…
Concerning the 7806, it is used for partial offset correction. The CD304 MKII uses this +8V source and 2k2 and 2k7 resistors in series to inject about 1.6mA into the signal (which has a -2mA offset). I have no idea why the Philips designers left some offset uncorrected and we still need some decoupling caps. They apparently did the same in the CD960 and CD94, too.
Right now, I have the problem of making my hybrids work. On the CD304 MKII with CD204 display all lights are on and indicate an error while on the CD204 with CD304 MKII display, there is no display function at all 😕. The powersupplies have been adapted to suit the different displays, so that should not be the fault. My guess is some different software in the control IC – the CD304 MKII uses a MAB 8441P T016 while the CD204 has a MAB 8440P D041. Maybe I will just change those ICs as they are in sockets.
Best regards,
StefanAC
Indeed i guess the uProcessor MAB is the clue. Not sure the I2C signals or the display driving signals from both chips is different. Check SM's on that.
I just tried cross changing the uP ICs – the CD204 with CD304 MKII display reads and plays CDs normally but has no signal at the output. That could be down too the display exchange but other causes are more likely. Even with the old display that player was not reliable due to some shipment damage – the reason it became a parts supply 🙁
The CD304 MKII with CD204 display on the other hand has the spindle motor working on full speed after powering up. The display reacts to my inputs, e.g. it seems to skip when pushing the button and so on. But the spindle motor can not be stopped with any input; it continues its work even when opening the drawer 😕. Therefore I have not inserted a CD yet.
All the while, on both players the laser is working. I can see the laser beam and the swing arm moves on powering up the players. Any suggestions are most welcome as I am running out of ideas!
Best regards,
StefanAC
The CD304 MKII with CD204 display on the other hand has the spindle motor working on full speed after powering up. The display reacts to my inputs, e.g. it seems to skip when pushing the button and so on. But the spindle motor can not be stopped with any input; it continues its work even when opening the drawer 😕. Therefore I have not inserted a CD yet.
All the while, on both players the laser is working. I can see the laser beam and the swing arm moves on powering up the players. Any suggestions are most welcome as I am running out of ideas!
Best regards,
StefanAC
The suffix after the MAB part # is the progamming series number. It could be you simply need an other MAB chip particular for the CD304.
Curios i have the same symptoms at this time. But its a 304 mk2 with a mk2 display ... so maybe yours is not a case of incompatibility. Examine the colored cables between display and servo board. Those thin solid core will fast break. I now solder a more flexible cable to the display.
After I removed the headphone at my mk2, I use the two holes in the front now with two switches. First for switchable oversampling, second for switchable de-emphasis. Very interesting differentiated in sounded, which I can compare now directly with one another.
For the switchable de-emphasis i removed the two smd-resistors 3562 und 3563 at the decoder downside, at transistor BC858B in place 6513 i cut the trace from emitter to pin 32 at 7210 or äquvalent M4804A. The switch was then connect to base and collector of the transistor - any objections?
Hello Andreas!
A broken cable could very well be the reason for both faults – I had it once with my other CD204. But the problem is – I am lazy 🙂. And for the CD204 with CD304 MKII display, I need to re-cable all connections which is quite time consuming. The single cable on the CD304 MKII with CD204 display will be my first work than. By the way – I measured all cables before assembly with a DVM and re-soldered all griplets.
The way you designed the switchable de-emphasis seems right to me. I only got one question and one suggestion – why have you removed R3562 and R3563? And wouldn’t it be nice to add a small LED to indicate when the de-emphasis should be switched?
How would you describe the difference in sound between NOS and OS and the influence of the de-emphasis?
Hello tubee!
I think by cross changing the MABs I should now have the right IC for each display. Otherwise I have no idea on how to get my hands on other MABs 😕. And the service manual for my CD204 is missing the interesting bits – the pages about the decoder and the servo board 😡. Has anyone a complete one?
Best regards,
StefanAC
A broken cable could very well be the reason for both faults – I had it once with my other CD204. But the problem is – I am lazy 🙂. And for the CD204 with CD304 MKII display, I need to re-cable all connections which is quite time consuming. The single cable on the CD304 MKII with CD204 display will be my first work than. By the way – I measured all cables before assembly with a DVM and re-soldered all griplets.
The way you designed the switchable de-emphasis seems right to me. I only got one question and one suggestion – why have you removed R3562 and R3563? And wouldn’t it be nice to add a small LED to indicate when the de-emphasis should be switched?
How would you describe the difference in sound between NOS and OS and the influence of the de-emphasis?
Hello tubee!
I think by cross changing the MABs I should now have the right IC for each display. Otherwise I have no idea on how to get my hands on other MABs 😕. And the service manual for my CD204 is missing the interesting bits – the pages about the decoder and the servo board 😡. Has anyone a complete one?
Best regards,
StefanAC
Hello Stefan!
By removing this resistors i expect when switch is off a null de-emphasis and switched a 50µs de-emphasis. Maybe it's better not to remove the resistors but connect the drains (D) from the two bsr65 in place 6514 and 6516 to the otherside of each resistor and cut the trace between resistors and the source (S) of the bsr n-fets. So i expect switched a 15µs de-emphasis. Am i right here?
You mean a diode switched on by pin 32 of 7210? Not a bad idea. But i hope the cd's with those that the case is are rare.
I made some NOS before and noticed always another sound and considered him better, but scolded the direct comparison by switching back and forth was missing. Without OS and without de-emphasis is the best, but before i don't know that differentiated is so enormously large. Both improve the sound in same priority however differently. By switching the NOS-button the sound separates from the loudspeakers. The difference is as clear as by shifting the mono/stereo key at the radio. The change without de-em does not have effect on 3d. Shifting de-em on sounds like hanging a blanket over the loudspeakers. Shifting de-em off as more highly detailed one feels immediately. But I here still no long term test made which for example listen fatigue concerns. In that the 15µs de-em for switching by is better than a dully 50µs.
With having one eye on the original state of this philipses I want to cannibalize oversampling and de-em not simply in such a way of pcb. And after remove that useless headphones connection with amplifier the two holes in front must somehow meaningfully filled.
Because of the bigger hole i let the knob for the headphone-level and put an on/off switch of the sony cdp behind.
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It fits into the original attachment clip.
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To connect I soldered sockets.
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For the Bursons the de-eem has to move to the otherside. No longer standing around with high-heels as antennas.
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Nice to swich betreen OS vs NON-OS
I tried Nonos a few times, and as you said after a long listening time fatiguing occured. The i tried bessel analog filtering, and discovered it became less fatiguing, but also less non-os sounding. Here is a hint for comparison: listen very good in wich mode the soundstage is deeper. Listen where you have better detailes, and so better pin-pointing of instruments/voices. And listen when sound is more laid-back or "forward"
I hope you report back🙂
I tried Nonos a few times, and as you said after a long listening time fatiguing occured. The i tried bessel analog filtering, and discovered it became less fatiguing, but also less non-os sounding. Here is a hint for comparison: listen very good in wich mode the soundstage is deeper. Listen where you have better detailes, and so better pin-pointing of instruments/voices. And listen when sound is more laid-back or "forward"
I hope you report back🙂
In the moment i have a problem with the display i work on it. One Question Tubee. In the Netherlands you have 240 Volt too? How do you connect the Trafo at MK2? In the Manual the Chematic is difficult to the build in Trafo, but we expect a connection at pin 1+4 for the 220volt in the 80's. We need now a connectin at pin 1+5 for 240V. I connect the one without Fuse from the bottom to the most left at top. As expect some sekundär drop 8%. Everything ok i thing, but some other rise 8% ... ???