I thought I made myself clear. I've said:
Hope you don't listen like you read. 🙂
I noticed the cop out. Just ignored it because it's just a simple way for you to say "oh I meant everyone else not you guys". And well you can just insult our abilities without having to actually back it up with anything. See there is a huge difference between one side saying that everyone is subject to fallibility and the other side saying anyone who doesn't agree with me has cotton in there ears or needs to be taught how to listen.
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If you don't know what you expect to hear from a good system, how on this earth will you be able to evaluate it?
I've said one need to learn what to expect from a system, the rest you've changed to suit your argument.
What I've said are purely based on observations made in hi-fi meetings, hi-fi shops and audio shows, as said it wasn't aimed at anybody here. The reason for making that statement were only to indicate that I belief most 'tests' are done with 'average' people and then the results get forced on everybody.
Andre, I must be missing the part where the speaker is compared to passive LCR. Can you point that one out to me?
I'm also missing the "scary" part. Maybe you could clarify that? These graphs look pretty noisy- even the input signals are different from one to another. If I were to judge by their data, the two esoteric cables were pretty similar, and neither was as good as plain old Romex.
I'm also missing the "scary" part. Maybe you could clarify that? These graphs look pretty noisy- even the input signals are different from one to another. If I were to judge by their data, the two esoteric cables were pretty similar, and neither was as good as plain old Romex.
I was only pulling your leg with that one. 😉
SY, I have no interest to discuss what is claimed to be esoteric or not, all I'm trying to say is that different cables sound different. These tests show that there are no differences on either side of a cable when driving a resistive load but quite large differences once a speaker load are connected, thus my believe that the 'normal' RLC calculations doesn't paint the whole picture and can be misleading.
That has been posted before in this thread.
What are the values on each axis? Im thinking the scale could be exaggerated.
and also what is the audibility of those differences?
No one will argue that we can measure small difference the biggest debate is all about being able to hear those differences and again ZERO controlled tests have proved your opinion to be accurate. Zero, does that mean ALL of those tests are just flawed?
You don't understand, they claim you can only hear what your brain want you to hear, so just convince yourself that everything sound the same and save yourself a lot of money, if you don't like talking to yourself you can just drink the brandy, it should still work. 😀 😀 😀
I actually agree with "the science types" 🙂 the problem is that most people (not talking about anybody here of course) never trained themselves to really listen, they don't care or have a clue what real instruments sound like, let alone what can be achieved by a good system so obviously they would look at the price, brand, size or anything else to try and define it's quality. I know, I was there also, always concerned about what other people say about a piece of equipment. Once you learn and know what you expect to hear from a system, these influences become unimportant, then you are not influenced by orange speaker cable any more. 🙂
You can not train your brain to ignore BIAS.
If anything if you think you have done that and you actually think you are trained listener then why not challenge yourself? Why not do the properly controlled tests to confirm your superior listening, superior BIAS control mechanisms your brains has compared to ours.
Doug,
So everyone in the world that has bought cables based upon how they sound (or an your opinion what ever the reason) are wrong and the few that claim that can not hear any differences are right. Is that your idea of scientific and accurate testing?
If these people felt that they were hosed and mislead, would they not shout from the roof tops to some consumer protection agencies (or in audio forums?) about the scam that was being perpetrated on them? I see no outrage anywhere but from those that say no one can hear differences. That tells me a great deal personally. But many people feel that all of these buyers were subjected to a mass media brainwashing blitz that has them now searching for the meaning of life or have become zombies of a mad empire 🙂. Consider that if you would please.
To be fair, Andre has asked me in the past about how to set up a controlled test and seems quite receptive to the idea of trying it. I've given him suggestions, and would encourage and support his efforts.
And why would anyone have a bias to begin with? Would they not have to have a reason to form a bias to start with? I just want to understand where bias comes from.
Dull means less high freq so it is FR. And a cable adding distortion(harmonic I am presuming) is a new one (how does it do that?).
Is this hearing related? Variations in what? Thats another statement that will need proof.
Right you are. 😉
The scales are clearly marked, on the plots for resistive loads you can get an idea of what the test signal look like. Compare that to driving a speaker load and worse, the difference you get on either side of the cable.
Look at the SPL levels and tell me.
I've only seen one test that were done on a known system where the listener could not hear the difference between cables in a blind test, I could not see anything wrong with that test. Read the paper in Audio Critic, imagine he show with his SIMULATOR that there are differences between cables when connected to different amplifier models and speaker models, some quite large according to me but the conclusion: (without any listening of course) just use lampcord. Laughable, don't you think?
Come visit, I will show you. 😉
If I knew, I guess we would not sit here and waste time. 😀
Sound localisation. To me the better I can get sound localisation, the easier it become to hear differences, maybe a reason for most of the perceived differences, I don't know.
EMF. The voltage produced across an inductor due to a changing magnetic field. The classic example is an ignition coil. Run current into the coil, the coil creates a magnetic field (which stores energy), stop the current, which collapses the field which in turn creates a back EMF (and the spark). So its the inductor itself that creates the changing (or moving) mag field due to the changing current thru it. This is constatly happening in a voice coil. And the way to reduce the back EMF is by loading the coil. And with speakers its the amp output impedance that does this loading (damping factor) And this is why we want low impedence speaker wires, its not power transfer.
See damping factor yourself? Turn your amp off and tap your woof, watch it vibrate.
turn your amp on and try it again, watch it vibrate less (you can hear the diference)
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