I've recently purchased a new pair of B&W 800D speakers : http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1159
I'm going to upgrade the internal wiring from:
Tweeter/Midrange uses Copper/Silver 14AWG Van Den Hul CS-14 http://www.vandenhul.com/p_D03AE.aspx (About $7AUD per metre)
Woofers users 12AWG OFC
I’m thinking of using one of the following:
Vampire Wire - SC-1108 - Silver/Copper http://www.vampirewire.com/pc-154-41-sc-1108.aspx
Oyaide's - Tunami Nigo - Copper Crystal with 3-LAYER Sheilding http://www.oyaide.com/e_audio/audio_products_files/tunami_nigo.htm
Furutech - Alpha S25 – Copper http://www.furutech.com/a2008/product2.asp?prodNo=298
Any one used these cables before or can you recommend other high-quality cables?
Another option is to use a pre-made speaker cable and cut it down to size...
Also would you recommend using the same length of cable for all the drivers? or just make the partner driver cable length the same?
I don't want to start a cable love-hate thread, just looking for some advice...
And "If its not broken, don't fix it" isn't going to cut it 🙂
I'm going to upgrade the internal wiring from:
Tweeter/Midrange uses Copper/Silver 14AWG Van Den Hul CS-14 http://www.vandenhul.com/p_D03AE.aspx (About $7AUD per metre)
Woofers users 12AWG OFC
I’m thinking of using one of the following:
Vampire Wire - SC-1108 - Silver/Copper http://www.vampirewire.com/pc-154-41-sc-1108.aspx
Oyaide's - Tunami Nigo - Copper Crystal with 3-LAYER Sheilding http://www.oyaide.com/e_audio/audio_products_files/tunami_nigo.htm
Furutech - Alpha S25 – Copper http://www.furutech.com/a2008/product2.asp?prodNo=298
Any one used these cables before or can you recommend other high-quality cables?
Another option is to use a pre-made speaker cable and cut it down to size...
Also would you recommend using the same length of cable for all the drivers? or just make the partner driver cable length the same?
I don't want to start a cable love-hate thread, just looking for some advice...
And "If its not broken, don't fix it" isn't going to cut it 🙂
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Seriously? My advice is to leave the £10k+ speakers alone.
What is it exactly you don't like about the sound? Or I'll say this another way, what is it exactly you're hoping to change by altering the wire?
What is it exactly you don't like about the sound? Or I'll say this another way, what is it exactly you're hoping to change by altering the wire?
I'm not a big believer in expensive cables myselt but I remain open minded.
What I do know for sure, from a B&W design engineer, is that they take the whole cable thing -very- seriously. My point being that I'm not sure if you'll find any benefits.
What I do know for sure, from a B&W design engineer, is that they take the whole cable thing -very- seriously. My point being that I'm not sure if you'll find any benefits.
Van Den Hul is good wire, I'm not sure if any of the others would be considered an upgrade.
Are those Mundorf SIO in the HF section?
Are those Mundorf SIO in the HF section?
Firstly, Congratulations on your new speakers 🙂
My only advice would be to upgrade the internal wiring with exactly the same wire you will be running to your amps. There's allot written about the subject but the main idea being that the chain is only as strong as the weakest link. Or that to fully realize/hear the upgrade, try to avoid negating it by mixing brands/models.
You might also find some advice from B&W dealers/company on the subject as the best place to start and avoid expensive trial and error. But having said that DIY audio as a hobby always calls for some spare cable floating about!
A general rule of thumb (and i do mean general) is to spend roughly 10% of equipment costs on ancillaries which would give you a starting budget of about 1k. Scary but with a speaker of your quality not an unreasonable proposition. At which point you might start looking at Nordost or Cardas cable as other options.
We would all love to hear back on your developments and you never know, you may be the one to turn this into another cable love/hate thread.
Have fun
Dean
My only advice would be to upgrade the internal wiring with exactly the same wire you will be running to your amps. There's allot written about the subject but the main idea being that the chain is only as strong as the weakest link. Or that to fully realize/hear the upgrade, try to avoid negating it by mixing brands/models.
You might also find some advice from B&W dealers/company on the subject as the best place to start and avoid expensive trial and error. But having said that DIY audio as a hobby always calls for some spare cable floating about!
A general rule of thumb (and i do mean general) is to spend roughly 10% of equipment costs on ancillaries which would give you a starting budget of about 1k. Scary but with a speaker of your quality not an unreasonable proposition. At which point you might start looking at Nordost or Cardas cable as other options.
We would all love to hear back on your developments and you never know, you may be the one to turn this into another cable love/hate thread.
Have fun
Dean
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B&W 800D Crossover
Tweeter - 4.7uF Mundorf Gold/Silver Capacitor
Midrange - 22uf+22uF+10uF Mundorf Supreme Capacitors
Woofer - 100uf+100uF Mundorf Mcap Capacitors
Tweeter/Midrange uses Van Den Hul CS-14 Copper/Silver 14AWG cable
Woofers use copper 12AWG cable
You don't want any of that fuzzy stranded wire; you want solid! Any 10-12AWG solid copper from the hardware store....
(And get rid of those wasteful coils on the woofer by going active.)
(And get rid of those wasteful coils on the woofer by going active.)
Save your money and don't bother with "upgrading" the internal wiring - you simply won't hear a difference because none exists.
What about the sound are you looking to change?
More high end tilt, more warmth, more resolution, more of a natural tone, etc...
More high end tilt, more warmth, more resolution, more of a natural tone, etc...
You can only make it worse or out of spec. B&W designed and measured this speaker with their own wire.
For our enlightenment only and not trying to start an argument of any sort...
How may one make it worse? Assuming that the same gauge wire was used but of a different brand?
Cheers
Dean
It is important that you try and pinpoint exactly what it is about the sound that you are dissatisfied with. There are so many considerations, and wire is one of the very last IMO.
What does the rest of your system consist of?
What speakers are you camparing these to? What did you have before? Consider that a more revealing speaker can show up flaws upstream that you were not aware of before.
Describe the room furnishings/acoustics. A speaker with a significantly different power response can sound totally different to another that is in the same performance bracket.
How young are your speakers? Consider that many have reported the top end B&W's as requiring significant burn-in (I prefer the term "run-in"). Consider that a big part of burn-in is actually listener acclimatisation- getting used to a new sound.
I see that you have not answered some of the other questions thrown at you. Don't be discouraged by the scepticism (I'm a wire sceptic! 🙂 ). I think that discussing it can only result in better understaning of the various factors that contribute to final perceived sound quality.
What does the rest of your system consist of?
What speakers are you camparing these to? What did you have before? Consider that a more revealing speaker can show up flaws upstream that you were not aware of before.
Describe the room furnishings/acoustics. A speaker with a significantly different power response can sound totally different to another that is in the same performance bracket.
How young are your speakers? Consider that many have reported the top end B&W's as requiring significant burn-in (I prefer the term "run-in"). Consider that a big part of burn-in is actually listener acclimatisation- getting used to a new sound.
I see that you have not answered some of the other questions thrown at you. Don't be discouraged by the scepticism (I'm a wire sceptic! 🙂 ). I think that discussing it can only result in better understaning of the various factors that contribute to final perceived sound quality.
Its not the sound I don't like, its that these are $35K AUD speakers, and they used $7AUD wiring.
Well I spoke with Van Den Hul today about the CS series cable and they suggested the SCS series is far superior and "hinted" in not so many words, that the SCS series was the preffered option by B&W, but it came down to price, as the SCS series was 6 times more expensive.
I like the idea of synergy, keeping the same cables, brand of components all the way through the system.
Along with cable upgrades, I was also going to investigate upgrading the crossover capacitors, specifically the midrange, from Mundorf Supreme to Silver/Gold OR changing the whole lot to Dueland.
B&W 800D
Pair of Classe CA-M400's
Classe CDP-102
Velodyne DD15
Everything is only about 2 weeks old.
Does this bother you? I was about to write something sarcastic but, really, some components are truly not that expensive (believe me, I work in the electronics industry). They don't have to cost a lot to perform well.
I must admit that, though I am a cable sceptic, I would actually spend a bit to buy cables that look high end-ish if I just bought some new high end speakers... cheap ones would look out of place. But I would not bother to replace the internal wiring... where would I stop? ...replace the copper inductors with silver-wound types (oops: I just gave you another idea! 😉 )?
Just the internal wiring and the capacitors "Bokkie"
Ek praat Afrikaans
Also I think the sound is fantastic, but I also think with better quality wiring it can be even better!
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