Agree , And especially when the speaker was not given enough time to break-in , and reduce it's cone's self noise.
Internal speaker wires should be the last to be blamed, After room acoustics treatment, break-in period, SQ of electronics evaluation, optimum speaker positioning and so on.
Otherwise , It is very stupid and foolish to change the internal wire of a new speaker.
wireeeee...
the only reason I see two change internal wiring is when the wire begins to corrode forming CuO - the green SH%#T - and acts as a semiconductor and distorts signal. BTW FOCAL UTOPIAS use the 12-10ga stranded wire. keep connections clean and well soldered. I like solid core, LITZ, silver plating, teflon, etc, as long as it keeps wire from forming that GREEN SH%#t
Get a life... IMPROVE YOUR ROOM ACOUSTICS my two cents
the only reason I see two change internal wiring is when the wire begins to corrode forming CuO - the green SH%#T - and acts as a semiconductor and distorts signal. BTW FOCAL UTOPIAS use the 12-10ga stranded wire. keep connections clean and well soldered. I like solid core, LITZ, silver plating, teflon, etc, as long as it keeps wire from forming that GREEN SH%#t
Get a life... IMPROVE YOUR ROOM ACOUSTICS my two cents
I think this is an advanced case... an audiophile spends megabucks on beefy cables for his ultra manly monoblocks to his beloved speakers, and then someone points out what's really behind the curtains. All is not well again.
next up... but my drivers voice coils only have 28 AWG I really need to do something please. PS It's called audiophile nervousa.
I love that argument.I think this is an advanced case... an audiophile spends megabucks on beefy cables for his ultra manly monoblocks to his beloved speakers, and then someone points out what's really behind the curtains. All is not well again.
Try running 28ga from your amp to your speaker, and internally to your drivers, let me know how that works out for you.
mount crossover externally
While you are at it, I would put the crossover in an external box, removing the effects of the drivers on the crossover components. Then, if you want to change an inductor for instance, it is easily done. Have at it!
While you are at it, I would put the crossover in an external box, removing the effects of the drivers on the crossover components. Then, if you want to change an inductor for instance, it is easily done. Have at it!
Sorry it's not an argument more of a tongue in cheek joke (or mental bait) at the expense of someone with OCD... but advice for the afflicted save your money to see a professional specialist.
Besides you take it to the opposite extreme ... we must upgrade the drivers to hexagonal or square wire VC's.
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What aspect of the speaker's sound do you wish to address?
Thank you for the pictures.
Do you care to post pictures of the insides of the cabinet, and the backs of the drivers?
B&W did not have to cut corners in choosing components for this speaker. I would not recommend attempting to second guess the B&W engineers in making changes to the internal cabling - I think you can be confident that they chose the correct wires.
If you wish to improve the sound, please provide accurate measurements of the speaker in your room, in addition to measurements of the individual drivers (including distortion, and from the angle that you listen at).
If the drivers are not time aligned, correcting the time alignment is going to yield far more significant improvements than changing cables possibly could.
Also, what kind of damping techniques are used in these cabinets? Possible improvements include adding constrained layer damping which could be implemented with metal plates on the insides of the cabinets so as to not alter the external appearance or change the internal volume of the speakers significantly.
Thank you for the pictures.
Do you care to post pictures of the insides of the cabinet, and the backs of the drivers?
B&W did not have to cut corners in choosing components for this speaker. I would not recommend attempting to second guess the B&W engineers in making changes to the internal cabling - I think you can be confident that they chose the correct wires.
If you wish to improve the sound, please provide accurate measurements of the speaker in your room, in addition to measurements of the individual drivers (including distortion, and from the angle that you listen at).
If the drivers are not time aligned, correcting the time alignment is going to yield far more significant improvements than changing cables possibly could.
Also, what kind of damping techniques are used in these cabinets? Possible improvements include adding constrained layer damping which could be implemented with metal plates on the insides of the cabinets so as to not alter the external appearance or change the internal volume of the speakers significantly.
You might want to try some coaxial speaker cables to your 800Ds, just for kicks & grins. I tried them around 1993 and I've been convinced ever since. Sommer Cable out of Germany offers the Magellan SPK series if you can find a local representative.
If you can't find Sommer cables then a dual or quad run of mini-RG8 works pretty well. Just connect all the shields together, all the cores together, and connect the shields to ground on the power amp. It's a lot more flexible than a quad run of standard RG8 - I speak from experience after wrestling that boa a few times.
soundengine355: The 800D needs an ENORMOUS break-in to really sound "sweet & polite" which is upwards of 750 hrs or more. The entire speakers as a package (incl those Mundorfs) are kinda like BlackGate caps. They take a long, long time to really open up & when they do, you are in utter bliss but there's nothing wrong (infact good) to go the vdH SCS way. I've used them earlier on my 802s & they're great.
I've used Classe amps & strongly recommend you getting your hands on a German made Symphonic-Line KRAFT 250 or 300 Stereo amp in biwired mode. Hear it & you'll kick the Classe's away... I ain't joking! Yeah - they could be difficult to locate in Australia. Serious B&W users in Europe use SL-Kraft amps.
I've used Classe amps & strongly recommend you getting your hands on a German made Symphonic-Line KRAFT 250 or 300 Stereo amp in biwired mode. Hear it & you'll kick the Classe's away... I ain't joking! Yeah - they could be difficult to locate in Australia. Serious B&W users in Europe use SL-Kraft amps.
I'm begging the OP, attack your room acoustics first. Dollar for dollar, it'll be the highest payoff.
If the OP were ever to sell these speakers, I sincerely hope he will inform any potential buyers that he has messed with them - particularly any changes made to the crossovers.
I for one would certainly not purchase them from him without a considerable discount on the going rate for unmodified examples.
I for one would certainly not purchase them from him without a considerable discount on the going rate for unmodified examples.
Actually, I am aware of 1-2 people who have gone that extra mile to change 1-2 cap values in the tweeter & mid to slightly soften down the speakers that gives a little more laid-back feel. Upon discussing this with B&W UK, they say its perfectly normal though it & classical music users would like such a setting better. In fact, it places the 800D closer to their Matrix 800 series voicing. However, it would certainly 'void the warranty'.
I don't feel there are any gains from upgrading the internal wiring harness. B&W uses Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold for tweeter, Mundorf Supreme for Mids and Mundorf MKP for Woofers.
I don't feel there are any gains from upgrading the internal wiring harness. B&W uses Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold for tweeter, Mundorf Supreme for Mids and Mundorf MKP for Woofers.
I've listened to the 800Ds. And would recommend:
Listen to them in a very dead room you can find first. My impression was the more critical problem was in the mid range driver and the XO design because I could identify in listening that the discontinuity is around the XO. There is not much you can do to improve it just changing components and wires. As a matter of fact, one could use more economical components to acheive the same performance.
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