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Old 21st April 2010, 12:00 PM  
SY is offline SY  United States
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Default His Master's Noise: A Thoroughly Modern Tube Phono Preamp

After more than 25 years of faithful service, it seemed that it might be time to redo my phono system. After all, I like to think that I've picked up a few tricks in the intervening years... The old system consisted of a VPI HW17-II, a Linn Ittok LVII tonearm, and a Troika cartridge. The Troika was...

Last edited by Variac; 2nd April 2011 at 12:17 AM.
 
30th November 2013
rrrs
diyAudio Member
Hi SY,

I built and really enjoyed this phono amp; it worked well for me with HO MC, 47k input R and no SUT; it really made me grab for a record instead of digital source whenever practical :-)

Now, recently I noticed on right channel a very strange low frequency noise, not a consistent hum, but it is like:
tum-tum-tum, then second or two pause, then tum-tum, pause, then tum-tum-tum-tum,....

It is not vey loud, just noticeable on low volume level, but clearly noticeable between the songs when listening on higher volume. At first I was sure it was right channel only, but I notice it also on left channel, just much quieter.

I hooked my scope as was planning to go trough the stages to find out where it comes from but was not able to get anything on the scope; I guess since it is not a consistent frequency, but a bit random...

Would someone have any idea how to go about trouble shooting this; could it be one of the DC blocking capacitors going bad???

I did try swapping all the tubes, but there was no change.
30th November 2013
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SY
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Are you using separate regulators for each channel? If so, I'd start looking there.
"You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is."
30th November 2013
rrrs
diyAudio Member
Hi, thanks for quick reply!
I built it on PC boards I got from Jack; it worked perfectly for over a year!
Yes, the boards provide separate regulators for each channel, but it is strange that it is possible (just possible!) to hear this on the left channel as well if set top maximum volume; but this might be crosstalk between the channels?

Would you suggest a method to troubleshoot regulators or should I just replace Q7, Q8, Q9 and Q10 and see if this helps?
30th November 2013
kstlfido's Avatar
kstlfido
diyAudio Member
A long shot, but could it be some form of RF noise? If rhythmic, it might be some/mobile interference. I've heard similar type noises with gsm-based phones.
30th November 2013
rrrs
diyAudio Member
It is a very deep noise coming from the woofer cone; basically very similar to tapping the cone with finger. it is a bit random, like 3 taps, then short pause, then 4 taps, then pause, then 2 taps, pause, 4taps,....
Shorting the inputs does not change anything, so it is happening within the amp.
30th November 2013
kevinkr's Avatar
kevinkr
diyAudio Moderator
It sounds like it could be conducted EMI through the power line. It does sound like some sort of data signaling.

Changing those transistors isn't going to fix the problem, they're either good or they are broken which is usually obvious due to other symptoms.

I am constantly reminded when I approach things with my cell phone in pocket.. None of my phono stages like it, and the car stereo is worst of all depending on where I place my cell phone.
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine
30th November 2013
rrrs
diyAudio Member
Hi, thanks, will definitely try relocating it and using different power socket.
It is strange though that only right channel is really effected; on left channel I can also hear it, but just barely on max volume setting.
I am using medical grade power input module that should filter RFI and EMI; wondering it might be actually this module that causes the problem, but, again, I would then expect both channels to be effected the same?
30th November 2013
Pano's Avatar
Pano
diyAudio Moderator
That's strange. We had the same problem last year with a Meyer Sound powered subwoofer. It would do just that; thump, thump, thump - pause - thump, thump, thump when plugged into the sound board. No ground lift or transformer would cure it. It was in a small theater, never happed again. And no phono preamp was involved!

Let us know what you find. That's an odd one.
1st December 2013
rrrs
diyAudio Member
Hi, so, I sort it out, at least sort of.
Once I moved the phono amp and TT completely away from other equipment and plugged in different power outlet (before they ware all plugged into same power strip) the thumping sound went away.
What was really strange that first I tried moving just the phono amp, but this did not help; only once the TT was moved it stopped.
I am still struggling to understand what would cause it, especially since all the components remained unchanged, also in position, since first day, but the problem appeared only after a year....
Will try experimenting a bit more and report if I find out something interesting.

Update, some time later...finally found what caused the noise; it was my new router wireless transmitter; as soon as I turn wireless off on the router all the noise is gone. Old router was causing no problems, being in same location, but once it broke and I got a new one that seems to have stronger transmitter....
Anyway, relocated it and solved the problem!
18th December 2013
Brinkman
diyAudio Member
SY,

The technical specs to the sowter 8055 mc transformer include Morgan Jones' notes regarding a zobel network in addition to the 6k8 loading R and input capacitance. Any particular reason you left the zobel network out?




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