Although stuffing can fill in holes in response and therefore add a bit at some frequencies, stuffing is always going to be a net loss. If the stuffing is placed in the right spot in the enclosure you can get rid of the higher frequency ripple without harming the bass down near tuning much.
As far as this particular picture, I wouldn't read too much into it. I don't know where you got it and I don't know the measurement details, but I've never seen anything that indicates a gain down near tuning from stuffing, in fact there's plenty of evidence to the contrary.
As far as this particular picture, I wouldn't read too much into it. I don't know where you got it and I don't know the measurement details, but I've never seen anything that indicates a gain down near tuning from stuffing, in fact there's plenty of evidence to the contrary.
what are the effects of leaning the baffle back? would that effectively shorten the duct, raise the wheeze factor if like the rough sketch below, etc? One might assume that Metro's T15 is a competent product but has somewhat more front chamber distance. I'll guess Metro's PHL was something like a 15TBX100.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Right , that was my understanding of it too and i suppose that is the conventional understanding ....
A while back I searched the interwebz high and low looking for different examples of what stuffing can do in a quarter wave pipe and generally what you find is what you would expect, but there was a couple of examples like that tapped pipe example that seemed out of the ordinary ....
There was another example of a TQWP or a voight pipe or some such thing which gained midband response (with stuffing) while the upper and lower ends of his usable response were smoothed and reduced a small amount, if i can find that graph i will post it ..
..................................
Referring to a question i brought up recently: The screenshot i attached to this post is what i think is roughly equivalent to Akabak's VISC=30 setting in the first section (S1) of an offset design like the Karlflex, i mentioned i would post something like this the other day and here it is, seems like HR's "Fr1" almost correlates to Akabak's "VISC" in this range , and i'm assuming that this setting is for simming a very light and loose stuffing of the entire first section ......
More densely packing the stuffing in the first 25% of S1 ( Fr1=520 and Tal1=25%) seems to work just as well in HR's Loudspeaker Wizard "filling"sim ....
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what are the effects of leaning the baffle back? would that effectively shorten the duct, raise the wheeze factor if like the rough sketch below, etc? One might assume that Metro's T15 is a competent product but has somewhat more front chamber distance. I'll guess Metro's PHL was something like a 15TBX100.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Freddi ,
I read that the Metro T15 is a nice little 6th order box ... The 15TBX100 would be an excellent choice for these sorts of designs ..... I think that leaning the baffle back like shown in your sketch would probably work , it might raise the FB up a little bit but if this was going to be a 40hz tuned box then hitting that target should still be no problem
by the way , the Dayton drivers were delivered about an hour ago !!!
I already opened the box and took a good look at them, they are kinda sexy ! Will post pictures here in a few minutes ...
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Dayton PA-310s! SEXY !
The new Dayton drivers have arrived !
They were well packed, boxes within boxes, and they arrived in perfect shape, no shipping damage that i can see ...
Attractive looking drivers, well constructed, clean and precise application of glue, driver components look aligned accurately, these appear to be very professional for a budget driver....
These should excel in the midbass and midrange, im not expecting a tremendous amount of sub-bass out of these because they are limited by their xmax figure but in the right cabinet the output at 40hz-50hz should keep up with everything else as long as i don't drive them beyond their limits .... Perfect for the two little class-d amps i have set aside for the bottom end on my mini-pa system ...
The new Dayton drivers have arrived !
They were well packed, boxes within boxes, and they arrived in perfect shape, no shipping damage that i can see ...
Attractive looking drivers, well constructed, clean and precise application of glue, driver components look aligned accurately, these appear to be very professional for a budget driver....
These should excel in the midbass and midrange, im not expecting a tremendous amount of sub-bass out of these because they are limited by their xmax figure but in the right cabinet the output at 40hz-50hz should keep up with everything else as long as i don't drive them beyond their limits .... Perfect for the two little class-d amps i have set aside for the bottom end on my mini-pa system ...
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HAHAHA ,
I thought you guys might like that, could it possibly be any more gaudy?
It is just so tastelessly over-the-top that it crosses over into the realm of sarcastic perfection! I am a big fan of ridiculous decor ...
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Hi Y'all,
You have been busy, I had little time lately, here is just something I was working on.
I made a smaller version of the KARLFLEX for the Beyma 15P1200Nd, and in the process arrived at an interesting fold. I'll attach a drawing, the Hornresp export file, and an AkAbak file for MMJ to chew on (rename 15_4seg.pdf into 15_4seg.aks).
Regards,
You have been busy, I had little time lately, here is just something I was working on.
I made a smaller version of the KARLFLEX for the Beyma 15P1200Nd, and in the process arrived at an interesting fold. I'll attach a drawing, the Hornresp export file, and an AkAbak file for MMJ to chew on (rename 15_4seg.pdf into 15_4seg.aks).
Regards,
Hi Y'all,
You have been busy, I had little time lately, here is just something I was working on.
I made a smaller version of the KARLFLEX for the Beyma 15P1200Nd, and in the process arrived at an interesting fold. I'll attach a drawing, the Hornresp export file, and an AkAbak file for MMJ to chew on (rename 15_4seg.pdf into 15_4seg.aks).
Regards,
Hello TB !!!
Excellent drawing!
I am curious about the effects of the extra fold in the s1 area, it extends path length and squeezes down the CSA which might make this box more suitable for strong drivers like the Beyma and that would be excellent!! of course it also changes the offset but with the reduced box height everything could work out well .... I will load up the sims and have good look at them
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Hi MMJ,
Looking at the drawing in Post #1188, you'll notice, that I allowed for three layers of 15/32" plywood for the driver mounting baffle. The layers on the inside and outside are for additional bracing, they should also smoothen out the flow (particularly in the front/aperture area), they are accounted for in the simulations. I think they can only help. This is a lot of driver for a lightly build box, but it should work. Depending on how much you want to break the duct/path down in AkAbak you should be able to see what different arrangements would do.
To find out how much stuffing would be appropriate, and which terminus shape would be the best, e.g.: Karlson slot, Keystone opening, a round circle..., or if there are any real differences in the subwoofer area, one will have to build and measure. This is probably beyond Hornresp and AkAbak.
Regards,
Looking at the drawing in Post #1188, you'll notice, that I allowed for three layers of 15/32" plywood for the driver mounting baffle. The layers on the inside and outside are for additional bracing, they should also smoothen out the flow (particularly in the front/aperture area), they are accounted for in the simulations. I think they can only help. This is a lot of driver for a lightly build box, but it should work. Depending on how much you want to break the duct/path down in AkAbak you should be able to see what different arrangements would do.
To find out how much stuffing would be appropriate, and which terminus shape would be the best, e.g.: Karlson slot, Keystone opening, a round circle..., or if there are any real differences in the subwoofer area, one will have to build and measure. This is probably beyond Hornresp and AkAbak.
Regards,
Ok , I am taking a look at the sims from post #1188 right now .... An FB of 42hz and good output for that size box for sure ...
I think initially Chris (with the Beyma) was shooting for a lower FB , somewhere around 35hz, but perhaps when he sees how much more output he can get from this very compact 40hz-42hz tuned design without exceeding xmax he will change his mind , however if not: im sure this box can be adapted to a lower FB..... Personally i like this FB (as in your sims) and it is exactly where i would prefer to tune a box with that driver (40hz-42hz) for maximum efficiency and power handling .....
I have been trying to experiment with creating a K-aperture in Akabak, i have just been using several small ducts (each getting a little larger in diameter til the final duct) with associated individual radiators, not sure if this is considered exactly correct , i was just trying to figure out how XRK does it ...
I think initially Chris (with the Beyma) was shooting for a lower FB , somewhere around 35hz, but perhaps when he sees how much more output he can get from this very compact 40hz-42hz tuned design without exceeding xmax he will change his mind
, however if not: im sure this box can be adapted to a lower FB..... Personally i like this FB (as in your sims) and it is exactly where i would prefer to tune a box with that driver (40hz-42hz) for maximum efficiency and power handling .....I have been trying to experiment with creating a K-aperture in Akabak, i have just been using several small ducts (each getting a little larger in diameter til the final duct) with associated individual radiators, not sure if this is considered exactly correct , i was just trying to figure out how XRK does it ...
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Hi freddi,
The response of the B&C 15TBX40 looks very similar in Hornresp. Should work as well as the Beyma. Don't know if fits depth wise, the data sheet says depth 6.2" (I don't have a drawing for that driver), the board behind the driver may have to be moved away from the driver a little bit (e.g.: 1/2"?), but it should still work well.
Regards,
The response of the B&C 15TBX40 looks very similar in Hornresp. Should work as well as the Beyma. Don't know if fits depth wise, the data sheet says depth 6.2" (I don't have a drawing for that driver), the board behind the driver may have to be moved away from the driver a little bit (e.g.: 1/2"?), but it should still work well.
Regards,
got one laying out in my way for months - will measure its depth - I'd like a punchy home speaker - in a reflex , 15tbx40 seemed to eat hundreds of watts for not much sound compared to some of the lighter 15s in the old Karlson. I've got a kw/side to spank it.
80 liter 41Hz tuned reflex - mic 2M and laying on the ground - those vents are ~like an Utlraflex/Onken and are gapped about 1.25" from the reflex back panel
80 liter 41Hz tuned reflex - mic 2M and laying on the ground - those vents are ~like an Utlraflex/Onken and are gapped about 1.25" from the reflex back panel
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Hi freddi,
I spend some more time w/ the box simulations from Post #1188, and it turns out to be very much a custom design for the B&C 15TBX40 (by accident ). Physicall, the driver should fit. A bass reflex might just have a little more output, but it will be larger. You also have a lot of tuning room through stuffing in the KARLFLEX, you can literally use stuffing all the way from S1 to S3, going from medium to very light density. And you have the Karlson slot for final tuning. Let me know if you need more detailed/dimensioned drawings.
Regards,
I spend some more time w/ the box simulations from Post #1188, and it turns out to be very much a custom design for the B&C 15TBX40 (by accident
). Physicall, the driver should fit. A bass reflex might just have a little more output, but it will be larger. You also have a lot of tuning room through stuffing in the KARLFLEX, you can literally use stuffing all the way from S1 to S3, going from medium to very light density. And you have the Karlson slot for final tuning. Let me know if you need more detailed/dimensioned drawings.Regards,
TB ,
I am going to play around a little bit in Akabak by attempting to add a 6 (or more) section K-aperture to the Beyma box that you posted in #1188 in place of the small flare, if i there are any significant changes or improvements i will be sure to post them here ....
I am also going to experiment with adding your extra fold mod to the S1 region on a few of my Karlflex sims to see how it changes things ...
Just finished testing the new drivers with the DATS , will post the screenshots here in a moment ...
I am going to play around a little bit in Akabak by attempting to add a 6 (or more) section K-aperture to the Beyma box that you posted in #1188 in place of the small flare, if i there are any significant changes or improvements i will be sure to post them here ....
I am also going to experiment with adding your extra fold mod to the S1 region on a few of my Karlflex sims to see how it changes things ...
Just finished testing the new drivers with the DATS , will post the screenshots here in a moment ...
FRESHLY MEASURED T/S PARAMETERS FOR THE DAYTON PA-310
These Dayton PA-310 drivers measure close enough to what they publish, however i really do like the marginally higher QMS figure
I just tested them with the DATS unit (not the current model , it is the first generation DATS but it works)
Behold the screenshots!
These Dayton PA-310 drivers measure close enough to what they publish, however i really do like the marginally higher QMS figure
I just tested them with the DATS unit (not the current model , it is the first generation DATS but it works)
Behold the screenshots!
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