Single sheet TH challenge

[jbell]

mike:

I thought about your question about holding back tops some more, and I guess I can offer this:

1. the beta 12a's are PE rated at 250, the 3015lf's at 450.
2. The tops are about 101 or so efficient, the subs about 103-105.
3. When things get seriously loud, you always run out of tops first, because you can accept a little distortion from your subs before you can accept the same distortion from your tops.
4. I like running my subs (at moderate levels) about 6-10db total hotter than my tops.
5. On installs I set the limiter on the crown to -3db lower on the top channel vs the subs.

So, is that holding back the tops vs. the subs? If you are looking at it from a voltage from the amp point of view -- yea, I guess by about 3db. However, the tops and the subs seem to run out of gas at about the same time the way I set things up, so I'm not sure 'holding back' is the correct term.

Hope that's helpful.

[littlemike]

Originally Posted by mike james 533

Thanks jbell for ignoring my question above! Why post this stuff up if your not willing to answer questions and help others?

Chill.

Jim has shared far more than you, and answered far more than you've asked.

[Cal Weldon]

Put your swords away gentlemen.

[mike james 533]

Thank you jbell for the information and answering my question. After going back and reading my post, it was way to harsh sounding. I am sorry for that Jim...

We have been using old Peavey W bins. They weight a ton, I hate them! We pulled the speakers out of the Titan 48's, they are to big to handle with my bad back. I am ready to start the build of 4 subs and then build more if needed. I will be matching them up with 4 otops Beta 12's loaded. Will post pic's and give a review when completed.

We will be using them for recorded music(mainly 80's rock and new and old country). They will get used mostly in small to medium sized clubs(150 -200) people. Also school dances and party's with no more then 300 people.

Jim, did you decide on a name for this new sub?

Thanks again,
Mike
P.S. I will put myself in timeout now.

[jbell]

Hey mike, no worries. I figured your intention was nothing personal.

W-bins... I hate w-bins... Band in college I was part of had these big heavy, 18" made by a member, nothing below 70hz w-bins. They looked like hell, sounded like hell... and was for a Christian rock band... (not a good combination.) Between the stone ear sound guy, who only knew 'up' and the w-bins -- I about lost my sanity some nights.

Anyway, I'm not into clever names, so how about SS15 for the sub and HS12 for the top?
4+4 subs/tops should get you about whatever you need sound-wise, and nothing will be over 50lbs. Perfect for roadies with back issues.

I look forward to a review, especially in light of your experiences with the much revered T48's....

[Don Snyder]

Good job Jim,

This sub is even better than your big TH. MARTINSSON did get shorted ... while you beat
his specs, no one noticed that his was only 187 liters while yours was 274 liters (see Hoffman's
Iron Law). If he redesigned his to meet the "single sheet of ply" rule, he could come much closer.

Sorry I flaked out on you earlier. Blood pressure's too high & pulse is too slow.
It really cuts into my concentration.

[mike james 533]

Jim,

You hit the nail on the head about the W-bins! I will be so glad when we stop using them.

I am going to try to get started tomorrow on the new subs. I am not too fast with the build process because of health issues. Slow but sure as my body lets me. But I will post pics of the process and report on it. The SS15 and the HS12 sound great. Good to have a name to refer to.

I built 2 Titans 48" x 24" loaded with the 3015lf. I was very disappointed with the results. I had to hold back 2 Otops for the subs to keep up, running them 2 tops and 2 titans at 60 volts . I was hoping the drivers would break in and they would be better. But no such luck. They are way too big for me and my bad back. It was a pain to V plate them and most times there wasn't enough room to do so at the places we play. Maybe I was asking too much of them, but they didn't live up to what I expected. I think a direct 15" box would out perform YMMV...did you ever build Titans?

Thanks again,

[jbell]

Yea... I built several things that start with the Letter 'T'

-13db at 40hz vs 100hz is the perfect recipe to roast hot dogs to perfection.....

You will have to 'unlearn' what you know about sub placement with these. If you are going to 'corner load' them, that means putting them in a corner facing OUT. They work very well in front of a stage on their sides, in a line. (their coverage pattern is different on side vs standing up.) Makes a good place for monitors as well.

[martinsson]

This sub is even better than your big TH. MARTINSSON did get shorted ... while you beat
his specs, no one noticed that his was only 187 liters while yours was 274 liters

Sorry for my absence in this thread, life as you know happens sometimes, anyway, has there been a actual shoot out between the different designs or are we comparing figures and graphs on the screen ?

I'm very intrested in knowing what the conclusions regarding the various designs strengths and differences are, no matter if i came out beaten to a pulp

A big part of the process of getting better at something is to listen to what people think of what you have acomplished, and how to improve upon that, especially if these people are you guys.

[Don Snyder]

Hi Anders - As far as I know, your design has not been involved in a "Shoot-out" and your Tapped Horn sims as good as Jim's,
when allowances are made for your horns smaller size. How they compare in listening tests remains to be seen, but I'd bet they both do well.

Thanks for your great TH,
Don