Gentlemen,
I've finally jumped into the wonderful world of DIY speaker building ! After spending hours on many forums, reading - and dreaming - of many of your designs, it was time for me to take my passion to the next step : build a complete set of speakers, from cabinet to finish.
I have all the necessary tools, mostly acquired over the last two years from birthday and Christmas gifts. As a practice, I've made small woodworking projects, only to play with the router and the table saw. Even if it was fun and useful, it was in no way what I was expecting to do with my tools. My idea was clear, from the start : build speakers that sounds good !
Beside the tools, I think I've learned alot from all those projects posted here on DIYAudio and on many DIYers personal websites. I still can't figure how to read harmonic distortion graphs, but it's not really important when you only replicate someone else's design...
With all this knowledge, I had to choose a project to build, something proven and of quality. I have to say that I haven't hesitate for long. I'm looking at Zaph's designs for along time now. But many of his designs, beside maybe the SilverFlute one, were too costly for me, or simply too small for my needs. But it was before the BAMTM design. Now I had something to build...
Since a good news doesn't come alone, one of my bookshelf Paradigm speaker broke a month ago. Don't ask how it happens, I don't know. I have nothing to do with it, seriously ! The speaker can output mids and highs, but bass sounds like crap. Good ! Now, it's order parts
I have the Seas tweeters in hands, as much as all the crossover components, all this from Madisound. Beside a small mistake in my order, everything looks good. Alan, from Madisound, is a great guy to deal with and replacement parts have been quickly shipped to me. I still wait for Parts Express drivers and port. I've also bought the MDF and both cabinet are taking form. It's where I am right now.
For all of you that are interested, you can follow my progress at this URL :
Zaph's BAMTM
A real website will *maybe* follow soon, but for now it's all I have !
The main goal with this gallery is to show to all other beginners how I've done it myself, so they won't make my mistakes... If you are an experienced DIYer, feel free to leave any comments here or, if you wish, directly on the gallery. This way *everyone* (not only DIYAudio fanatics) will see how many mistakes I do in this projects. I'll update this post and the picture gallery as fast as I progress in the building process.
It's a pleasure to finally post something on this forum. Thanks for you time.
Regards,
Dino Barnabe
Quebec City, Canada
I've finally jumped into the wonderful world of DIY speaker building ! After spending hours on many forums, reading - and dreaming - of many of your designs, it was time for me to take my passion to the next step : build a complete set of speakers, from cabinet to finish.
I have all the necessary tools, mostly acquired over the last two years from birthday and Christmas gifts. As a practice, I've made small woodworking projects, only to play with the router and the table saw. Even if it was fun and useful, it was in no way what I was expecting to do with my tools. My idea was clear, from the start : build speakers that sounds good !
Beside the tools, I think I've learned alot from all those projects posted here on DIYAudio and on many DIYers personal websites. I still can't figure how to read harmonic distortion graphs, but it's not really important when you only replicate someone else's design...
With all this knowledge, I had to choose a project to build, something proven and of quality. I have to say that I haven't hesitate for long. I'm looking at Zaph's designs for along time now. But many of his designs, beside maybe the SilverFlute one, were too costly for me, or simply too small for my needs. But it was before the BAMTM design. Now I had something to build...
Since a good news doesn't come alone, one of my bookshelf Paradigm speaker broke a month ago. Don't ask how it happens, I don't know. I have nothing to do with it, seriously ! The speaker can output mids and highs, but bass sounds like crap. Good ! Now, it's order parts
I have the Seas tweeters in hands, as much as all the crossover components, all this from Madisound. Beside a small mistake in my order, everything looks good. Alan, from Madisound, is a great guy to deal with and replacement parts have been quickly shipped to me. I still wait for Parts Express drivers and port. I've also bought the MDF and both cabinet are taking form. It's where I am right now.
For all of you that are interested, you can follow my progress at this URL :
Zaph's BAMTM
A real website will *maybe* follow soon, but for now it's all I have !
The main goal with this gallery is to show to all other beginners how I've done it myself, so they won't make my mistakes... If you are an experienced DIYer, feel free to leave any comments here or, if you wish, directly on the gallery. This way *everyone* (not only DIYAudio fanatics) will see how many mistakes I do in this projects. I'll update this post and the picture gallery as fast as I progress in the building process.
It's a pleasure to finally post something on this forum. Thanks for you time.
Regards,
Dino Barnabe
Quebec City, Canada
Yes, thanks. Sounds like you are in a similar position to myself, but a bit further along. I was also looking at the Silver Flute project due to cost, but may re-visit the BAMTM...
It appears you're going with the floor-standing vented enclosure, right? I would probably go with the sealed unit, so I have the option of using them as bookshelves, or rear surround, or whatever.
But right now I have two many incomplete projects, so I will just watch yours develop...
ps: Since you're in Quebec, I expected you'd order from Solen - is there a reason why not? Aside from having a lousy website, their prices seem ok for us Canadians...
It appears you're going with the floor-standing vented enclosure, right? I would probably go with the sealed unit, so I have the option of using them as bookshelves, or rear surround, or whatever.
But right now I have two many incomplete projects, so I will just watch yours develop...
ps: Since you're in Quebec, I expected you'd order from Solen - is there a reason why not? Aside from having a lousy website, their prices seem ok for us Canadians...
Gollum,
Congrats on your project and everything looks great.
A suggestion if i may:
After the first couple of cabinets I built I found that depending on my cuts and my gluing ability i ran into the problem of my joints not lining up properly. The worst being, putting the last pannel on and the sides not extanding all the way. Kind of hard to imagine, but what I do now is cut certain pieces longer.
For example if the front baffle is between the sides, and after my braces are all glued, when I put the front baffle on, the sides don't extend all the way. This margin of error may only be 1/16" but it is knowticable. So in that case, I would make the sides pannels 1/4" longer than necessary so that i will ensure to have no problems. Then when I everything is glued and completed I use a flush trim router bit to make the side pannels even to the front.
Thanks,
Josh
Congrats on your project and everything looks great.
A suggestion if i may:
After the first couple of cabinets I built I found that depending on my cuts and my gluing ability i ran into the problem of my joints not lining up properly. The worst being, putting the last pannel on and the sides not extanding all the way. Kind of hard to imagine, but what I do now is cut certain pieces longer.
For example if the front baffle is between the sides, and after my braces are all glued, when I put the front baffle on, the sides don't extend all the way. This margin of error may only be 1/16" but it is knowticable. So in that case, I would make the sides pannels 1/4" longer than necessary so that i will ensure to have no problems. Then when I everything is glued and completed I use a flush trim router bit to make the side pannels even to the front.
Thanks,
Josh
Renron:
You've understand pretty well my objective with this post and the picture gallery. Learn from my mistakes, don't repeat them ! Do your own... Good luck with your project. Mine is quite fun so far !
TDWesty:
The SilverFlute design is a bit cheaper, but uses older drivers. With recent Zaph's tests on different drivers, it's clear you can do really better today for not much $ at the end. Both the Seas H1212 and Dayton DA175 are high value drivers. And you can make a floorstander version on the BAMTM, which was a good choice for me. Look closely at the SilverFlute design, it's full of compromises to keep it the cheapest possible.
As you've said, I'll build the vented floorstanded version of this design. I follow the *exact* plan suggested by Zaph. The only change I'm planning is to move the port on the front baffle, simply to improve the look. I simply doesn't know now if it changes something to frequency response or anything else, so I put an hold on my idea for now.
Finally, I choose Madisound over Solen for three reasons : I had trouble finding the exact values for inductors and/or capacitors at Solen, I was able to order online at Madisound, and prices are a little bit better at Madisound. You know, there is 14,5% tax added on any purchases made in the Province of Quebec. When you think parts are 5 to 10% cheaper at Madisound (exchange rate included), when it doesn't cost more to chip an order from 2000km than one 200km away, and when you have a chance to save taxes, well, you order from Madisound !
Thanks for your comments. An update of the picture gallery should follow this weekend. Both cabinets are ready for their first holes : binding posts !
Regards,
Dino
You've understand pretty well my objective with this post and the picture gallery. Learn from my mistakes, don't repeat them ! Do your own...
Good luck with your project. Mine is quite fun so far !TDWesty:
The SilverFlute design is a bit cheaper, but uses older drivers. With recent Zaph's tests on different drivers, it's clear you can do really better today for not much $ at the end. Both the Seas H1212 and Dayton DA175 are high value drivers. And you can make a floorstander version on the BAMTM, which was a good choice for me. Look closely at the SilverFlute design, it's full of compromises to keep it the cheapest possible.
As you've said, I'll build the vented floorstanded version of this design. I follow the *exact* plan suggested by Zaph. The only change I'm planning is to move the port on the front baffle, simply to improve the look. I simply doesn't know now if it changes something to frequency response or anything else, so I put an hold on my idea for now.
Finally, I choose Madisound over Solen for three reasons : I had trouble finding the exact values for inductors and/or capacitors at Solen, I was able to order online at Madisound, and prices are a little bit better at Madisound. You know, there is 14,5% tax added on any purchases made in the Province of Quebec. When you think parts are 5 to 10% cheaper at Madisound (exchange rate included), when it doesn't cost more to chip an order from 2000km than one 200km away, and when you have a chance to save taxes, well, you order from Madisound !
Thanks for your comments. An update of the picture gallery should follow this weekend. Both cabinets are ready for their first holes : binding posts !
Regards,
Dino
Not being able to order online is exactly the reason I don't order from solen aswell, I wonder how much business they loose because of this? I've also tried ordering via email, and that's hit and miss, and more of the latter to be honest i've sent 3 orders to them and only one has been processed succesfully, the other 2 times I just didn't get any response from them so I placed and order with madisound.... Shipped out same day and sent me a tracking number a few hours later....Sorry for the rant
Good luck with the project!
Tristan
Good luck with the project!
Tristan
Tristanc1,
I've called them a couple of times and the customer service is good. I suppose many peoples make business with them mainly because they can serve you in French, and because these customers are afraid to use a credit card to order in the United States. The retail store is close to Montreal, so they probably get alot of customers this way too. I've nothing against them. As you, it's just easier to order at Madisound, even for a French speaking Canadian customers !
Thank you for the good words.
Dino
I've called them a couple of times and the customer service is good. I suppose many peoples make business with them mainly because they can serve you in French, and because these customers are afraid to use a credit card to order in the United States. The retail store is close to Montreal, so they probably get alot of customers this way too. I've nothing against them. As you, it's just easier to order at Madisound, even for a French speaking Canadian customers !
Thank you for the good words.
Dino
Hi,
Things are going slowly. I haven't received anything from PartsExpress so far. And it's the same situation with the correct capacitors shipped by Madisound to replace the wrong 1 mfd I got in the original package. A box is waiting for me at the post office... but I can't claim it before monday morning
Temperature outside is fine enough to get a shot at the baffle. Forecact are at -10 Celsius for thje afternoon. The router is ready, so let's try to make a hole for these tweeters !
You can follow my progress here.
Regards,
Dino
Things are going slowly. I haven't received anything from PartsExpress so far. And it's the same situation with the correct capacitors shipped by Madisound to replace the wrong 1 mfd I got in the original package. A box is waiting for me at the post office... but I can't claim it before monday morning
Temperature outside is fine enough to get a shot at the baffle. Forecact are at -10 Celsius for thje afternoon. The router is ready, so let's try to make a hole for these tweeters !
You can follow my progress here.
Regards,
Dino
Good luck on the hand routing of that circle! Have you thought about calculating the required outside circle diameter, and then cutting a jig of that size using either your router, or a jigsaw? Another thought which comes to mind is using a large circle boring jig in a drill press to cut in your outside edge of the flange (only 1/8" deep or so), then work out to it with the router by hand.
I'm still studying the plans, and am a little confused by the vented vs. sealed options. I'm also not clear which version is used for the measured response graphs. The graph showing the low end response for the sealed version includes an LR4 sub crossover, so I can't compare with the same graph for the vented version. Am I missing something here?
This statement leaves me a little confused also:
"The DA175 woofers are higher Qts and in general that's going to mean sealed enclosures are more suitable. In fact, unreasonably large sealed enclosures are going to be required if you intend to keep the box Qtc low. Every enclosure for these is going to represent a compromise. 1 cu ft total (1/2 cu ft per woofer) is a trade off between reasonable sealed enclosure size and box Qtc."
So he is saying that sealed designs are generally more suitable, but the 1.0cuft is a compromise. He later shows a 2.0cuft sealed option, but it's really a 1.0cuft with a sub in the lower 1.0cuft section. What if I wanted to make a 2.0cuft version (like the vented), but make it sealed? How would that compare with the vented version? For that matter, I am still unclear how the base sealed design compares with the base vented design.
I don't really want a sub (I've managed without for years, and my PSBs seem to have adequate bass for me, they are -2db at 60Hz and -10db at 30Hz according to specs), but if I build this design, I would like to extract the most useful bass response I can. But if going with a 2.0cuft box (sealed or vented) isn't going to result in significant gains in the low-end, I'll probably stick with the 1.0cuft and then have more placement options.
I'm still studying the plans, and am a little confused by the vented vs. sealed options. I'm also not clear which version is used for the measured response graphs. The graph showing the low end response for the sealed version includes an LR4 sub crossover, so I can't compare with the same graph for the vented version. Am I missing something here?
This statement leaves me a little confused also:
"The DA175 woofers are higher Qts and in general that's going to mean sealed enclosures are more suitable. In fact, unreasonably large sealed enclosures are going to be required if you intend to keep the box Qtc low. Every enclosure for these is going to represent a compromise. 1 cu ft total (1/2 cu ft per woofer) is a trade off between reasonable sealed enclosure size and box Qtc."
So he is saying that sealed designs are generally more suitable, but the 1.0cuft is a compromise. He later shows a 2.0cuft sealed option, but it's really a 1.0cuft with a sub in the lower 1.0cuft section. What if I wanted to make a 2.0cuft version (like the vented), but make it sealed? How would that compare with the vented version? For that matter, I am still unclear how the base sealed design compares with the base vented design.
I don't really want a sub (I've managed without for years, and my PSBs seem to have adequate bass for me, they are -2db at 60Hz and -10db at 30Hz according to specs), but if I build this design, I would like to extract the most useful bass response I can. But if going with a 2.0cuft box (sealed or vented) isn't going to result in significant gains in the low-end, I'll probably stick with the 1.0cuft and then have more placement options.
Super premier project mec!!
Il faut commencer par un projet simple,
mais tu as tres bien choisi quelquechose d'aussi performant que simple!!!
la plupart des designs de Zaph sont de qualitee superieur, tu devrais obtenir des resultats tres plaisant!
Combien d'epais de neige avez vous a QC city ?
Il faut commencer par un projet simple,
mais tu as tres bien choisi quelquechose d'aussi performant que simple!!!
la plupart des designs de Zaph sont de qualitee superieur, tu devrais obtenir des resultats tres plaisant!
Combien d'epais de neige avez vous a QC city ?
Here's the type of adjustable cutting bit I was thinking of:
http://www.lsdinc.com/content/product_details/30
My dad has one of these, and they have the advantage of being adjustable for odd sizes, where you can't get a fixed hole saw to work.
Another option if you don't have a router is to cut the holes needed in 1/8" material the same size as the baffle (or whatever thickness needed for the tweeter flange), then glue this whole assembly to the baffle.
http://www.lsdinc.com/content/product_details/30
My dad has one of these, and they have the advantage of being adjustable for odd sizes, where you can't get a fixed hole saw to work.
Another option if you don't have a router is to cut the holes needed in 1/8" material the same size as the baffle (or whatever thickness needed for the tweeter flange), then glue this whole assembly to the baffle.
TDWesty,
your idea with the 'large circle boring jig' is not bad at all... but I only have a hand drill, and nothing else than standard drill bits. But this Hole Cutter thing looks fine for someone without a Jasper Jig. At least the border of the hole will be better than with the router only.
For the vented vs sealed designs and frequency response charts of both, read carefully and look at all the images, even those linked outside the original page. All your questions are answered there... because I had the same ! What you are looking for is in the 'Bass tuning options' and the 'Options' sections.
I've chosen the vented 2.0cuft because I have no plan to build a sub for my living room. For what I've read, there is a small difference between vented and sealed, and you pay in power handling what you get in bass extension. As per Zaph : "With the tuning at 32Hz, we get only mild peaking in the 50-80Hz range, good extension and power handling close to the sealed version." It's what I'm looking for and it looks like it's what you are asking too !
JinMTVT,
Content de voir que quelqu'un ici parle et ose ecrire en français ! En effet, le projet semble assez simple et, surtout, de très grande qualité. Il y a longtemps que je scrute le site de Zaph. Je respecte beaucoup son professionnalisme, même si ce n'est qu'un 'particulier'. Le crossover est simple, les pieces accessibles et le design est superbe ! J'ai bien hâte d'écouter le tout.
Il y a peut-être un pied de neige au sol, mais pas plus. J'ai pris des photos ce matin sur ma galerie, en train de percer les tweeters... tu verras, demain ou après demain, en allant sur la galerie de photos combien de neige il y a... c'en est désolant !
Et dans la région de Montréal, ça dit quoi ? Mettez-vous des bottes aumoins ?
Regards,
Dino
your idea with the 'large circle boring jig' is not bad at all... but I only have a hand drill, and nothing else than standard drill bits. But this Hole Cutter thing looks fine for someone without a Jasper Jig. At least the border of the hole will be better than with the router only.
For the vented vs sealed designs and frequency response charts of both, read carefully and look at all the images, even those linked outside the original page. All your questions are answered there... because I had the same ! What you are looking for is in the 'Bass tuning options' and the 'Options' sections.
I've chosen the vented 2.0cuft because I have no plan to build a sub for my living room. For what I've read, there is a small difference between vented and sealed, and you pay in power handling what you get in bass extension. As per Zaph : "With the tuning at 32Hz, we get only mild peaking in the 50-80Hz range, good extension and power handling close to the sealed version." It's what I'm looking for and it looks like it's what you are asking too !
JinMTVT,
Content de voir que quelqu'un ici parle et ose ecrire en français ! En effet, le projet semble assez simple et, surtout, de très grande qualité. Il y a longtemps que je scrute le site de Zaph. Je respecte beaucoup son professionnalisme, même si ce n'est qu'un 'particulier'. Le crossover est simple, les pieces accessibles et le design est superbe ! J'ai bien hâte d'écouter le tout.
Il y a peut-être un pied de neige au sol, mais pas plus. J'ai pris des photos ce matin sur ma galerie, en train de percer les tweeters... tu verras, demain ou après demain, en allant sur la galerie de photos combien de neige il y a... c'en est désolant !
Et dans la région de Montréal, ça dit quoi ? Mettez-vous des bottes aumoins ?
Regards,
Dino
Arc,
I've never looked closely at this type of product. I know what you're talking about, I've already used it in a previous life, but I'm wondering if you can always find the precise diameter you need... does you have all diameters, from 1'' to 6'', with a 1/8'' gap between each hole saw ?
I'll take a look at it. Thanks for the suggestion !
Dino
I've never looked closely at this type of product. I know what you're talking about, I've already used it in a previous life, but I'm wondering if you can always find the precise diameter you need... does you have all diameters, from 1'' to 6'', with a 1/8'' gap between each hole saw ?
I'll take a look at it. Thanks for the suggestion !
Dino
Dino,
You can whip up your own circle jig aswell, take a look herediy circle jig
I used this until I got a jasper jig, and it works great, just measure from the outside(very important!!) of the router bit then mark down the correct distance on the jig and your set. Something like that will always work better than hand routing, which basically requires the hand of god to do correctly. It's also safer, routers can get spinning pretty quick, and if you catch on something the least of your worries will be a scrapped baffle....
Good luck!
Tristan
You can whip up your own circle jig aswell, take a look herediy circle jig
I used this until I got a jasper jig, and it works great, just measure from the outside(very important!!) of the router bit then mark down the correct distance on the jig and your set. Something like that will always work better than hand routing, which basically requires the hand of god to do correctly.
It's also safer, routers can get spinning pretty quick, and if you catch on something the least of your worries will be a scrapped baffle....Good luck!
Tristan
Tristanc1,
My router provides a solution like the second one presented on the website you're pointing to. I can add a metal part with, at its end, an adjustable pin. If I drill a small hole, I can put the pin in it and let the router turn around. But the problem is that I can't use it for holes below 4 or 5'' in radius. The base of the router is quite big (anormally big?) and such completly useless for a tweeter.
I'll try to use this solution with the woofers, but I'm not sure at all it will work. I suppose I have to wait until I build a 12'' subwoofer before using it efficiently... :-(
I'll post tomorrow on the gallery pictures of the recesses I've made this morning for both tweeters. My first attempt wasn't that good, but the second one is not bad at all. A little bit of sanding to smooth the edge and it should be fine for this time.
But since I'm a little bit more professional than that, I have to agree with many DIYers that it's hard and not the best idea to make driver recesses freehand, without a guide or a jig. I keep my judgement for later concerning the hole, but the recess won't look as good as I'd liked.
Thanks for your suggestion !
Dino
My router provides a solution like the second one presented on the website you're pointing to. I can add a metal part with, at its end, an adjustable pin. If I drill a small hole, I can put the pin in it and let the router turn around. But the problem is that I can't use it for holes below 4 or 5'' in radius. The base of the router is quite big (anormally big?) and such completly useless for a tweeter.
I'll try to use this solution with the woofers, but I'm not sure at all it will work. I suppose I have to wait until I build a 12'' subwoofer before using it efficiently... :-(
I'll post tomorrow on the gallery pictures of the recesses I've made this morning for both tweeters. My first attempt wasn't that good, but the second one is not bad at all. A little bit of sanding to smooth the edge and it should be fine for this time.
But since I'm a little bit more professional than that, I have to agree with many DIYers that it's hard and not the best idea to make driver recesses freehand, without a guide or a jig. I keep my judgement for later concerning the hole, but the recess won't look as good as I'd liked.
Thanks for your suggestion !
Dino
You're braver than I am to attempt those freehand! Keep in mind that you may be able to backfill any overcut areas using a good filler - install the tweeter with some plastic or tape to protect it, then fill up to the flange with a putty knife, and sand smooth with a sanding block after removing the tweeter. I bet once painted, you'd never know...
Another option is to drill a small hole directly into your router base, provided it's not made of metal, and then stick a small nail upwards through the baffle and into the hole you made in your router baseplate, that works well for an ultra cheap circle jig for anything smaller than 6". Just another idea, nothing wrong with freehanding it if you can do it though, and like was said before you're a braver man than I to attempt that....That said I have a 3HP router that thing'll throw me half way across the room if I catch something ..
Tristan
..Tristan
TDWesty,
It's the bet I've made before starting the recess cuts. I don't think I overcut, but I'm 100% sure I undercut alot. A good sanding paper and a couple of hours later, it should be fine ! But as you say, I can always fill the gaps with some putty. I'll post many pictures of these steps when I'll do them.
Tristanc1,
My router base is all metal. I could probably use a piece of wood under it, make a hole in it at the right radius and then turn around a small nail at the circle radius. But it sounds too complicated...
I can't remember how many HPs my router has, but it cuts MDF like butter. The bit to cut the recess is around a 1/4'' wide, with two blades, and I have to be really cautious because it eats MDF quite fast. I haven't tried it on maple or oak though...
regards,
Dino
It's the bet I've made before starting the recess cuts. I don't think I overcut, but I'm 100% sure I undercut alot. A good sanding paper and a couple of hours later, it should be fine ! But as you say, I can always fill the gaps with some putty. I'll post many pictures of these steps when I'll do them.
Tristanc1,
My router base is all metal. I could probably use a piece of wood under it, make a hole in it at the right radius and then turn around a small nail at the circle radius. But it sounds too complicated...
I can't remember how many HPs my router has, but it cuts MDF like butter. The bit to cut the recess is around a 1/4'' wide, with two blades, and I have to be really cautious because it eats MDF quite fast. I haven't tried it on maple or oak though...
regards,
Dino
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