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Old 10th March 2013, 12:10 AM   #1521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdkJake View Post
Do you like the sound better at that tuning?
Yes I do. I was sceptical about getting improvement with lowering Fb from 35 to 33Hz, but this definitely worth the effort. There is more impact on base notes and this is the way I like to hear them.
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Old 10th March 2013, 01:39 AM   #1522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petefrontiers View Post
Yes I do. I was sceptical about getting improvement with lowering Fb from 35 to 33Hz, but this definitely worth the effort. There is more impact on base notes and this is the way I like to hear them.
Well done.

Just a comment re length and its pros and cons. No doubt that using smaller diameter, you can tune lower more easily. So smaller diameter translates into shorter length, and larger diameter means longer length. But you don't want to make the diameter too small or the peak velocity in the port goes up dramatically, making the port more potentially noisy. In bad cases, when power is wound up, this can lead to the dreaded "chuffing" sounds.

There are programs (WinISD comes to mind) that allows you to play around with various diameters and lengths and shows the different velocity in Mach, which means that the peak velocity of 1 Mach = the speed of sound. You want to stay well below that. You also have to specify the power input, as it goes up with increased power.

I use my Elsinores with 30 Watts amps right now. With 88mm internal diameter and let us say 100mm is needed to get 33 hertz, then Mach will not exceed 0.17 with 30W and have some headroom, Mach of 0.32 at 100W

In fact at 100 Watt Please keep in mind that peak velocity is only achieved if full power of the amp is concentrated at Fb (or 33 Hertz in this case), so it does happen a lot of times. But you just want to have a safe margin.

In the Elsinores I wanted a decent compromise, I didn't go for flared ports as that is not DIY friendly, and I always wanted to make the Elsinores as DIY friendly as possible, and flexible when damping can be a little off, etc. It was only the Waveguide that sorta got in the way. But there was no easy way around that one.

Now all you guys out there should check what your Fb is - it is not that hard to do.

Maybe we can get a consensus that in most cases we do need to make the vent/port 20mm longer?

That is one of the beauties of DIY.

Cheers, Joe
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Old 10th March 2013, 12:30 PM   #1523
dondiba is offline dondiba  France
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Default european damping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkythefrog View Post
Pascual, Dondiba,
We are a few i Sweden that will try to put together some Elsinores. Approx costs: Elements 520, filters 100, damping - not found yet, cabinett - could be whatever - but raw cabinets 100. We also try to bring a European version of the waveguide to life as the cross atlantic hipping cost is not at all fun. Pascual - where did you find the correct damping?
hi,
i consider building these loud speakers, and i would be interested in sharing informations about european sourcing of the parts, and also financialy participating in an european wave guide serie

for the damping, i found this in france :
Amortissement interne des enceintes acoustiques

they say the damping will work for medium hight but not for the low frequecy

dondiba
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Old 10th March 2013, 03:47 PM   #1524
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Originally Posted by dondiba View Post
hi,

they say the damping will work for medium hight but not for the low frequecy

dondiba
The WG project is very slowly going forward. At this point we are aiming for aWG outline the same as for the mid and bases. That to get just one template for the milling.

When it comes to damping the investigations with two proffesional speaker producers have ended up in two options. Either just all soft glasfibee house insulation or some lambs wool at the far back of the box, covered with insulation. Polyester have been tested seriously in a big test here in Sweden years ago and not found usable at all (didn't know about it until just recently).
I think that makes it easier for all of us as we haven't found any good stuff yet.

You are welcome to join in. I have some fairly good discount at europeaudio if you looking for a good vendor.
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Old 10th March 2013, 03:55 PM   #1525
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Originally Posted by petefrontiers View Post
Very nice work Sharky and Sibbeli ! I'm curious to see your carbon fiber waveguide.
Sloooowly getting forward.
The drawings for mold is progressing and are discussed from different perspectives.

Now we have also decided to design it with the same outline as the mids&bases. A little bit more work but will ease up the diy work for others. Also we are using just 25 mm material, and will reduce the milling for future project by a different design of the mid section baffel.
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Old 10th March 2013, 03:58 PM   #1526
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Originally Posted by petefrontiers View Post
Yes I do. I was sceptical about getting improvement with lowering Fb from 35 to 33Hz, but this definitely worth the effort. There is more impact on base notes and this is the way I like to hear them.
So what is your latest length of the pipe, something like 110mm for the 33Hz?
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Old 10th March 2013, 04:11 PM   #1527
jdkJake is offline jdkJake  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petefrontiers View Post
Yes I do. I was sceptical about getting improvement with lowering Fb from 35 to 33Hz, but this definitely worth the effort. There is more impact on base notes and this is the way I like to hear them.
I agree. I think the 33hz tuning works the best. A least for my space and listening preferences.

I tried everything from 31~32 Hz to 36hz and found the 33hz tuning the most subjectively satisfying. For my particular box construction, which was a few millimeters short in height, I added 15mm. So, I think it is most important to try to either measure your results or listen to the various lengths for a period of time to make a final decision.
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Old 10th March 2013, 04:15 PM   #1528
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Originally Posted by Sharkythefrog View Post
So what is your latest length of the pipe, something like 110mm for the 33Hz?
The lenght of the pipe is now 105mm, ID is 90mm. The temporary solution is not elegant but was very quick to implement
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Old 10th March 2013, 04:18 PM   #1529
jdkJake is offline jdkJake  United States
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While I am not a big fan, I stumbled across a Jason Mraz "beautiful mess" concert on Palladia.

The Elsinore waveguides love that mix! The ambience retrieval is pretty amazing. Huge, big soundstage, especially in depth.

I hold no responsibility for the stylistic content nor performance. But, it sure sounds impressive. ;-)
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Old 16th March 2013, 02:43 AM   #1530
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no need to apologize, i'm a fan of his music. it's fun and i like his lyric style. i'll have to check that out, my kids really love his music too.
Scott
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