Im really curious and a bit sceptic. "Commercial speakerare only there to make a buck" Well maybe, but to sell, it gonna need to sounds good. So no argument here abou why not trust a company. They still can put out a product that sounds good, they need to otherwise, they wont sell their speakers! and what about vintage speakers folks. I still prefer my dynaco a25, to some 3k focals at the shop. Im just wondering how much you guys have made comparision between diy speakers and vintage or commercial speakers. If you claim that the speakers you have made is good in comparison to ue new commercial over priced speakers but without seriously tried vintage classics, good commercial speakers and the diy speakers, well your opinions are just worth nothing. Who have made direct comparision between your diy speakers versus a whole lot of vintage and new speakers
If by DIY you mean "design it yourself" then I think the odds of outclassing a good commercial design are fairly long. If instead you mean "do (build) it yourself" based on a proven design then I think it's a no-brainer. I have a pair of Linkwitz Orions that fit the bill if you have $3K to spend. Pluto will get you there for less. I don't have personal experience but have read good things about gedlee's designs. Few DIY audiophiles have the talent, equipment, facilities, time and resources to iterate systematically to an optimum outcome, but there are a few who have got there & you can stand on their shoulders.
Well, if I understand what you're saying, then yes I'll make that claim.
Your statement is obtuse, not well thought out and calls for a conclusion that you cannot honestly make.
This type of post is what is commonly called "a troll" and, as such, doesn't deserve the time of day.
Its just common sense.
The price of a commercial design is > 80% overhead. Example $2K speakers will have about $400 of real parts in them. The $1600 in top of that is all other costs (distribution, marketing, R&D, Margins, Dealer Margins (I Like ID models better), Salaries, Health Care and EVERYTHING else that goes into running abusiness). When we build a speaker the price tag on our speaker is only that $400. We do not need add the "other" costs into our builds since everything else is free to us.
Its a common ratio, our $400 speakers can be compared to $2K speakers. Our $2K speakers can be compared to $10K speakers.
We can also customize our designs to our very specific needs where its much harder sometimes to find that comercial option that will fit 100%.
Speaker building isnt Rocket Science and those working for comercial companies do not have access to resources we can not access. Remeber we only need to build one set of speakers vs 1000 units
Big difference in how costs are structured and the perfection is on our side.This is all very logical too me for any to argue against DIY easily beating Comercial tells me that individual has no experience in DIY.
I compare speakers all the time. I have yet to find a comercial speaker that matches what DIY offers. Measurements also back up what DIYers have been doing for years!!
Last edited:
The original poster had doubts that a DIY speaker could sound better than a commercially built speaker yet....amps, preamps and all the other electronics are definitely better?
Yet speakers are the most likely to make a system sound different even though all the data shows neutrallity.
About the only thing I'd say a commercially built speaker is better at is making a pair have two identical aerodynamic shapes since computer controlled equipment can do that better than a guy with a table saw.
Yet speakers are the most likely to make a system sound different even though all the data shows neutrallity.
About the only thing I'd say a commercially built speaker is better at is making a pair have two identical aerodynamic shapes since computer controlled equipment can do that better than a guy with a table saw.
I am absolutely sure that my DIY speakers are the best in the world. Mind you, they may suck to everyone else, but I have 100% of what I wanted in loudspeakers. In addition to the 20:1 cost savings vs. commercial speakers, it's like going to a restaurant vs. cooking your own meal. I've made speakers exactly how I wanted them to be, therefore "best" is the proper adjective for me. That I have heard speakers costing 10x as much which I didn't like to listen to is just icing on the cake for me.
So, to my fellow DIY builders, make what you want and be happy.
Best,
Erik
Mind you, they may suck to everyone else, but I have 100% of what I wanted in loudspeakers. In addition to the 20:1 cost savings vs. commercial speakers, it's like going to a restaurant vs. cooking your own meal. I've made speakers exactly how I wanted them to be, therefore "best" is the proper adjective for me. That I have heard speakers costing 10x as much which I didn't like to listen to is just icing on the cake for me. So, to my fellow DIY builders, make what you want and be happy.
Best,
Erik
lol indeed
I used to be murphythecat and my intuition was right.
Ive build a couple of diy speakers and then went into buying and testing many vintage and new speakers. Ive tried in my room JBL lsr32, wilson cub 2, anj lx, amphion one18, harbeth p3esr, ref 3a decapo, tannoy gold 12 inch, chartwell ls35a.
not one commercial speakers was inferior to the diy speakers Ive build.
Id like to try a troels speaker design though but I doubt hes able to compete with the best speaker designers in the world nor have the time to spend 3 years tweaking a speaker to perfection.
Last edited:
I'm confused, are you saying that commercial speakers are as good or better than your DIY builds?
Erik
Its just common sense.
The price of a commercial design is > 80% overhead. Example $2K speakers will have about $400 of real parts in them. The $1600 in top of that is all other costs (distribution, marketing, R&D, Margins, Dealer Margins (I Like ID models better), Salaries, Health Care and EVERYTHING else that goes into running abusiness). When we build a speaker the price tag on our speaker is only that $400. We do not need add the "other" costs into our builds since everything else is free to us.
Its a common ratio, our $400 speakers can be compared to $2K speakers. Our $2K speakers can be compared to $10K speakers.
We can also customize our designs to our very specific needs where its much harder sometimes to find that comercial option that will fit 100%.
Speaker building isnt Rocket Science and those working for comercial companies do not have access to resources we can not access. Remeber we only need to build one set of speakers vs 1000 units
This is all very logical too me for any to argue against DIY easily beating Comercial tells me that individual has no experience in DIY.
I compare speakers all the time. I have yet to find a comercial speaker that matches what DIY offers. Measurements also back up what DIYers have been doing for years!!
yes a 2k commercial speakers will have 400$ in parts but the time to develop the speaker crossover, which is by far the most important aspect of a speaker, is what you are mostly paying for.
speaker building isnt rocket science, but to make a very special speaker is beyond the price of its parts.
commercial have been much better then my diy efforts.
however, I like to think that my diy efforts wasnt good enough. Ive had two fullrange based speakers, one big giant three way and a jeff bagby continuum.
I've noticed that in the last couple or so years that the members of our DIY Audio Club have built some really excellent sounding speakers (as well as other electronic gear). The result of the cooperation and assistance from people of various skills and abilities has aided in advancing the general, overall level of their projects. Some of the projects that the members have turned out will certainly go head to head with "anything"
available to the general public!
The best part is just being able to get help in areas that one may not know much about! DIY today and all the way!
Best Regards,
TerryO
available to the general public!
The best part is just being able to get help in areas that one may not know much about! DIY today and all the way!
Best Regards,
TerryO
Of course, in fact some of our member work in, or are retired from, the Audio Industry and are certainly well known.
Best Regards,
TerryO
I'd like to, however I'll leave the trill of adventure and exploration to you. I have a number of things to do today so I don't have time. OTOH, I've posted many times over the years and there is plenty there for you to read.
Best Regards,
TerryO
I concur!
Nearly two decades ago, I worked shoulder-to-shoulder with two speaker designers at a well known music electronics manufacturer for a couple of years. They put an enormous amount of effort into developing crossovers, though they also put an enormous amount of effort into optimising the drivers (yes, the factory would modify the driver details based on their feedback), and the details of the porting and stuffing of the enclosures.
Part of design and development is measurement; we used several pieces of specialised equipment that are unavailable to most people doing DIY at home. One of them was a Bruel & Kjaer measurement microphone, which was ruler-flat from around 3 Hz to over 40 kHz (!!) There was a matching Bruel & Kjaer mic preamp as well, and these two items alone cost several thousand dollars (USD).
I remember that that incredible microphone caught a problem with a very expensive, very popular competing loudspeaker: the expensive titanium dome tweeter it used had a gigantic spike in its frequency response at 40 kHz, what we called the "oil can resonance" of the metal dome. Not audible, surely, but I bet it went unknown by the manufacturer because they did not have a microphone capable of going that high in frequency.
In addition to the super-accurate, super-expensive measurement mic (absolutely necessary, because you can't design what you can't measure), there was similarly expensive computer software and hardware. There were Audio Precision and MLSSA measurement systems, and others I don't remember the names of.
Another part of the process was many, many listening tests, done by many pairs of educated ears. Each new speaker design was compared against successful competing products by other manufacturers, to provide a baseline.
Each of those competing loudspeaker products sold for hundreds of dollars (thousands in one or two cases). So the listening room full of competing speakers represented an investment of thousands of dollars, just by itself. (Add in the reference preamp, amp, speaker switching systems, and audio sources on top of that.)
And how much was that collection of educated ears worth? Priceless, that's how much. Many company employees were musicians, or part-time music producers, or just Hi-Fi enthusiasts. Many of them would be invited to listen, compare, and give their feedback.
All of this expensive equipment, and extreme effort, was necessary to keep us honest. It is very easy to slap a couple of drivers in a box and say "It sounds great!", and believe it, in the same way we might believe our babies are the most beautiful and our children the most talented on earth.
I am quite sure there are many expensive commercial speakers that are not worth the asking price, where you're paying mostly for the brand name. I am equally sure that the best commercial designs cannot be equaled at home without access to the very expensive and very specialised resources needed to develop them. (We haven't even talked about the cost of renting an anechoic chamber yet.)
-Gnobuddy
yep.
most designer test dozens of drivers to find the best for said enclosure.
I know harbeth tested 50 different version of their radial midbass. and then theirs the crossover work that takes month and years to perfect for even the best designers in the industry with decadess of succesfull speaker design and experience.
most designer test dozens of drivers to find the best for said enclosure.
I know harbeth tested 50 different version of their radial midbass. and then theirs the crossover work that takes month and years to perfect for even the best designers in the industry with decadess of succesfull speaker design and experience.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.