You are not likely to learn anything unless you start seriously by measuring. The advice you get here is controversial. I see this ESS dumped enclosure as means to learn new skills and possibly put these to some use. ESS 10" woofer is just a normal hifi woofer capable of decent performance until probably a couple of hundreds of Hz or a little more, so a dedicated midrange is essential for better sound. Forget about sensitivity embellishment, this woofer probably gets louder in break-up region and quieter in bass and that could explain the way it sounds by default. Without introducing new expenses, I'd use Focal midrange unit that you have and give it a chance.
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I'm still waiting on the back ordered UMIK1 mic, where I can start measuring.
As far as a learning experience, as soon as the mic gets here, it appears as if Zvu and I are going to start designing my first pair of speakers, With that experience, I should be able to design, and experiment all I want. I should have the basics, and some first hands on experiences to work from.
I'm just trying to decide if I should get a 10" driver, and turn the ESS into a 2 way, or if I should add a midrange and make it a 3 way. Just fishing for opinions.
However, I understand your finer point. I can't really do ANYTHING until that mic arrives. And THAT is precisely what is driving me insane.
Until then, practice measuring impedance with ARTA labs software suite (or whatever you prefer) using a simple jig consisting of some wires, jacks and a single 100 ohm resistor, no amplifier. It's real fun to be able to do some testing on your own. Even an ancient and obviously not a high end sound card can be useful.
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Thank you! I had no clue there were any programs like this online. I should have guessed as much.
3way in my opinion.
You will always have some issues with a 10+tweeter 2way, unless the tweeter in question is a compression driver with horn, like inconsistent dispersion, a stressed tweeter and woofer cone break up.
All are easily fixed or avoided altogether going 3way.
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I know I can only listen to these for a short time, before I get a LITERAL headache. This 10" driver is NOT happy doing any kind of subtle sounds at all. It thinks it's always in a stadium. My ears say the tweeter would be happier crossed 500hz higher, or with a steeper roll off. But it is very difficult to tell for certain, due to the 10" mating with it.
I know now that I would like to see it with a nice pro midrange and better pro woofer, in a 3 way. I just believe this is what the tweeters would work best doing.
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I totally concur Flaxxer!
Those Heils are a bit of a legend and rightly so, I think they deserve to be in company that lets them shine as best as they can and in a 3way with pro drivers can do just that.
I'd also say put them in wide, shallow enclosures, get them on a wall and not bother with baffle step correction. But those are just my own preferences and prejudices.
Those Heils are a bit of a legend and rightly so, I think they deserve to be in company that lets them shine as best as they can and in a 3way with pro drivers can do just that.
I'd also say put them in wide, shallow enclosures, get them on a wall and not bother with baffle step correction. But those are just my own preferences and prejudices.
Oh man ... I just hate wide, shallow enclosures. I've always been just the opposite. I like slim and deep enclosures. It satisfies my OAF ( own acceptance factor ) LOL.
I just have to find out the sensitivity of these tweeters first. Then I am eventually shopping for Pro drivers.
As I said: My own preferences and prejudices.
Of course narrow, deep speakers imply that they will be some distance from walls so baffle step becomes an issue which needs to be taken into consideration.
I'm going against the Zeitgeist in that I'm not a fan of BSC.
Mostly because I'm space handicapped and my speakers are always on walls but also I just don't like the idea to effectively throw away some of the sensitivity and you are still putting more bass energy into the room albeit not directly into the listening space.
However every room has it's 'party limit' above which putting more bass spl into the room results in a horrible drone and things start falling off shelves etc.
That depends on the overall amount of bass so with BSC you are relatively and over the whole spectrum reducing the maximum level for that room.
If I could I'd soffit mount my speakers since I really like them to be as unobtrusive as possible. Speakers that visually scream 'I'm here' tend to interfere with the stereo illusion for me. Kinda hard to forget that the sound comes from speakers when they dominate the vista!
Just explaining my prejudice as best as I can late at night and less than sober...
Of course narrow, deep speakers imply that they will be some distance from walls so baffle step becomes an issue which needs to be taken into consideration.
I'm going against the Zeitgeist in that I'm not a fan of BSC.
Mostly because I'm space handicapped and my speakers are always on walls but also I just don't like the idea to effectively throw away some of the sensitivity and you are still putting more bass energy into the room albeit not directly into the listening space.
However every room has it's 'party limit' above which putting more bass spl into the room results in a horrible drone and things start falling off shelves etc.
That depends on the overall amount of bass so with BSC you are relatively and over the whole spectrum reducing the maximum level for that room.
If I could I'd soffit mount my speakers since I really like them to be as unobtrusive as possible. Speakers that visually scream 'I'm here' tend to interfere with the stereo illusion for me. Kinda hard to forget that the sound comes from speakers when they dominate the vista!
Just explaining my prejudice as best as I can late at night and less than sober...
Now this thread was all fun, until you guys started getting technical and crap!
My speaker placement is NOT an option. This is unfortunately dictated. I am only 10" from my side walls. But I am 3.6 feet to the back wall. And this can not change at this time.
So I will have to eventually address BS. However for now, my plan is to sit back and watch you guys debate until you have chosen my drivers and designed my xover.
You're already working on the BS !!!
Just playing around, of course! When it starts getting technical, I make jokes.
Then go read more about what I don't comprehend.
My speaker placement is NOT an option. This is unfortunately dictated. I am only 10" from my side walls. But I am 3.6 feet to the back wall. And this can not change at this time.
So I will have to eventually address BS. However for now, my plan is to sit back and watch you guys debate until you have chosen my drivers and designed my xover.
You're already working on the BS !!!
Just playing around, of course! When it starts getting technical, I make jokes.
Then go read more about what I don't comprehend.
And had I been sober I probably would have managed to condense my waffle down to a sentence similar to that one.
my plan is to sit back and watch you guys debate until you have chosen my drivers and designed my xover.
Good plan, I like driver picking drivers!
Here is a midrange suggestion in absence of a budget:
FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | M5N8-80
What are your expectations vis-a-vis bass extension?
It'll be difficult to find a 10" that goes loud enough to keep up with the AMT and low enough to make me happy. Unless I'm building a small bookshelf speaker I like to reach around 42Hz* so looking for Fs around that but that would really require a 12".
You could do twin 8s or 10s which would give you options re Baffle Step Correction later on and would fit better with your narrow preference.
As for designing your crossover you gotta find another sucker since I don't do passive!
*42Hz is usually the lowest note you can expect from a classic electric band being the open E string of the bass.
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Good plan, I like driver picking drivers!
Here is a midrange suggestion in absence of a budget:
FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | M5N8-80
Looks all kind of cool, But that is probably too sensitive for this Heil AMT.
I have zero issues stepping up to a couple of 8" drivers per cabinet. I could do a 12", but would have to build a separate enclosure, under the main enclosures. I couldn't stand a 14"+ wide speaker.
How about B&C:
One of these:
B&C 5MDN38 5" Professional Neodymium Midrange Speaker 8 Ohm
and two of those per speaker:
B&C 8FG51 8" Professional Woofer 8 Ohm
One of these:
B&C 5MDN38 5" Professional Neodymium Midrange Speaker 8 Ohm
and two of those per speaker:
B&C 8FG51 8" Professional Woofer 8 Ohm
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