Why aren't we building bookshelf Synergy monitors? - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Gallery Wiki Blogs Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 4th January 2016, 06:56 AM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Default Why aren't we building bookshelf Synergy monitors?

It seems to me this could be done easily, using multiple full ranges around an efficient dome yweeter?????
__________________
I am The Audio Infidel..... I don't even tolerate my own BS.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2016, 06:59 AM   #2
DPH is offline DPH  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
If you want directionality to any sort of frequency, you're going to need decent sized horns. At bookshelf-like sizes, there are better solutions, IMO.

Plus, it'd make more sense to use a small-ish fullrange and a couple of 6.5's if you can make it work.
__________________
Happy DIYing, Daniel
(This space is occupied by the artist formerly known as Derfnofred)
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2016, 01:31 PM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Smallish 6.5" coax on short waveguide can be called synergy horn as per danley catalog so bookshelf synergy is doable.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2016, 03:35 PM   #4
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
diyAudio Member
 
xrk971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Metro DC area
Patrick Bateman has been building tiny synergies to stuff in his car dashboard for years. Recently I have shrunk the Trynergy to 8.5in X 13in mouth and it supports horn gain down to 350Hz. If we are ok with 500Hz as lowest horn directed gain size will be smaller.

It's a great question because I believe they would work great as desktop studio monitors if smaller.

More scaling down to be had in 2016. The problem is if you want point source bass from teeny synergy it adds bulk for woofers. Would be easier to do hybrid and mount horn above an 8in woofer direct radiator.

Here is how small I got my Trynergy. Still not quite desktop yet but getting there.
Click the image to open in full size.

The Trynergy could be a dome tweeter at apex and four small full ranges for mids. Then 8in woofer for bass below 500Hz. Sensitivty of bass is limiting factor. With pro woofer after baffle step still maybe 90dB.

Last edited by xrk971; 4th January 2016 at 03:38 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2016, 10:44 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Patrick Bateman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrk971 View Post
Patrick Bateman has been building tiny synergies to stuff in his car dashboard for years. Recently I have shrunk the Trynergy to 8.5in X 13in mouth and it supports horn gain down to 350Hz. If we are ok with 500Hz as lowest horn directed gain size will be smaller.

It's a great question because I believe they would work great as desktop studio monitors if smaller.

More scaling down to be had in 2016. The problem is if you want point source bass from teeny synergy it adds bulk for woofers. Would be easier to do hybrid and mount horn above an 8in woofer direct radiator.

Here is how small I got my Trynergy. Still not quite desktop yet but getting there.
Click the image to open in full size.

The Trynergy could be a dome tweeter at apex and four small full ranges for mids. Then 8in woofer for bass below 500Hz. Sensitivty of bass is limiting factor. With pro woofer after baffle step still maybe 90dB.
Yep.

Click the image to open in full size.

The first thing that I attempted after renting a pair of SH50s was a horn where the boundaries of the room extend the mouth of the horn. The reason that this was so appealing was because renting a "real" pair of SH50s revealed that the Danley units aren't too picky about room location. IE, the room didn't seem to contribute a lot to the sound. So if that's true, it might be possible to push them all the way into the corners of the room, and shrink the footprint significantly.

Click the image to open in full size.
Here's one of the JBL PT waveguides that I chopped up to see how tight I could fit it into the corner of my dash

Click the image to open in full size.
And here's some waveguides I 3D printed last week to fit in that same spot. I still need to chop 'em up to fit, but you can see that it's possible to make quite a tight fit. 3D printing helps, because you can do things like 'push' the woofers through the walls for a tighter fit.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2016, 11:28 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Winnipeg
I think we (not necessarily me, I'm a noob) but we need to make synergies easy for people to understand and build. Bookshelf, 3 way, fullrange, OB, they are all super easy to get step by step designs anywhere online. Synergies are lagging behind in that regard. After more people build them more variations will follow.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2016, 11:31 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Patrick Bateman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindsource View Post
I think we (not necessarily me, I'm a noob) but we need to make synergies easy for people to understand and build. Bookshelf, 3 way, fullrange, OB, they are all super easy to get step by step designs anywhere online. Synergies are lagging behind in that regard. After more people build them more variations will follow.
That's one of the funny things about the design that a lot of people don't appreciate. If you look around the forums you don't see a lot of people with failed Synergy horns. Most people who've tried them have had success with them.

On the surface, the design is maddeningly complex. But it's also (fairly) forgiving.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2016, 01:09 PM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Rochester, MN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindsource View Post
I think we (not necessarily me, I'm a noob) but we need to make synergies easy for people to understand and build. Bookshelf, 3 way, fullrange, OB, they are all super easy to get step by step designs anywhere online. Synergies are lagging behind in that regard. After more people build them more variations will follow.
I disagree. I think there is quite a lot of info out there if you look. Most of it is covered in the patents as well.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2016, 03:49 PM   #9
GM is offline GM  United States
diyAudio Member
 
GM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Chamblee, Ga.
Yeah, while the 'devil's in the details' to get the most efficient, etc., alignment; if you have a clue about horn design, then Unity/Synergies are no harder to design than 6th order BPs and with the advent of relatively inexpensive digital EQ/XO/TD and measurement systems, just about any combo of drivers can be made to work 'well enough' together as I proved to myself back in '98? after Tom had given me a 'teaser' description of a new horn design by cobbling together a very crude [Unity] concept using a square terminus piezo horn and a couple of RS 40-1197 4" 'FR' drivers.

GM
__________________
Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2016, 06:45 PM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
The real issue is making those compression (frenum?) inserts inside the midranges or have we gotten past this?
__________________
I am The Audio Infidel..... I don't even tolerate my own BS.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why aren't we building horns this way? peteleoni Multi-Way 39 20th April 2016 06:47 AM
Building some bookshelf speakers Apoplectic Equipment & Tools 2 17th August 2011 09:29 PM
Qty. 5 zaph sr71 bookshelf monitors for sale mp006ltk Swap Meet 4 22nd February 2010 11:34 PM
Large Bookshelf/Monitors Big Kev ! Multi-Way 1 19th May 2009 06:24 AM
High Quality Bookshelf Monitors BAM Multi-Way 0 8th February 2002 09:10 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:35 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2016 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2
Wiki