So, that means... the actual physical distance of the drivers away from each other!? Where does the number 34000 come from?
If I'm understanding this correctly, ... if I take these... from eBay, Vifa XT25SC90-04.
The Fs on these are 837hz,
so, 837 * 2 * 2 = 3348hz for the crossover point.
and 34000 / f = 3348hz.
so f = 10.1cm?
Does that mean, if I can place the drivers 10cm apart, I can accomplish this 'perfect situation?' but the drivers won't physically go 10cm apart, because of their size... so I need to go lower on the Fs?
The Fs on these are 837hz,
so, 837 * 2 * 2 = 3348hz for the crossover point.
and 34000 / f = 3348hz.
so f = 10.1cm?
Does that mean, if I can place the drivers 10cm apart, I can accomplish this 'perfect situation?' but the drivers won't physically go 10cm apart, because of their size... so I need to go lower on the Fs?
Or use steeper slopes on the XO at least 2nd order.
I have never used the XT series of tweeters but I have heard they are good but problematic if crossed too low.
I have just opened David Weems book, he has a design using the P17 and the D27TG-05-06 and he crosses at 4k using third order, in that design the C2C distance is 141mm.
Personally I think this an argument in favour of NEO tweeters, but Vifa have discontinued the little DN26 with the truncated faceplate, although I was lucky enough to score a few sets I'm trying to hang on to them.
I have never used the XT series of tweeters but I have heard they are good but problematic if crossed too low.
I have just opened David Weems book, he has a design using the P17 and the D27TG-05-06 and he crosses at 4k using third order, in that design the C2C distance is 141mm.
Personally I think this an argument in favour of NEO tweeters, but Vifa have discontinued the little DN26 with the truncated faceplate, although I was lucky enough to score a few sets I'm trying to hang on to them.
Remember too that speaker drivers start to beam when the frequency reproduced becomes smaller than the diameter of the driver, so the P17 starts to "beam" like a headlight when the sound waves get to around 2k, this also plays a part in determining the XO frequency.
You can use this as another argument in favour of 3-way systems too, so your choice of the P-17 is a good one, but it is on the upper limit of size to go with a cheaper tweeter
You can use this as another argument in favour of 3-way systems too, so your choice of the P-17 is a good one, but it is on the upper limit of size to go with a cheaper tweeter
Vance Dickason's book "Loudspeaker Design Cookbook" has plans at the end of the book for a studio monitor he desiged using a Scan Spheak D2905 Revelator tweeter and a Scan Speak 18W/8545K00 woofer.
It looks like he put a lot of effort into the design and it is comprehensively discussed in his book.
Just a thought.
It looks like he put a lot of effort into the design and it is comprehensively discussed in his book.
Just a thought.
Well, my point was:
1. Dickason's system can be thought of as more of a kit. All the engineering and design work is done, including the crossover.
2. It was specifically designed as a studio monitor for Dickason's recording studio.
3. Regardless of which way he goes, getting the book will be a valuable resource anyway.
If the original poster is looking for a complete DIY project, including the design of the system and its crossover, this is not the project for him. However, if he is looking for a short cut around the design, this could be a very good way to do it.
Dickasons book is well worth reading borrowing buying, but the OPs choice for a good all-rounder in cost effective and still available here.
I interpreted the original query as being one on which tweeter to use and how to develop the XO.
P17 is much cheaper that Dickasons choice, tho the Scanspeak is a much better woofer
I interpreted the original query as being one on which tweeter to use and how to develop the XO.
P17 is much cheaper that Dickasons choice, tho the Scanspeak is a much better woofer
Well, I'm very DIY all over the place, I designed and made my own projector, from an old LCD monitor, I make computer games, never done a coding course or anything, just do it for fun, I'm a geek basically.
I just worked out by using a standard sized 6.5" driver, ... ie what I have chosen, and a standard tweeter with a typical 100mm faceplate, and if they are actually touching, end to end in the cabinet, the lowest tweeter hz I can get for optimal is 659hz. Whee. I might even use that book + design in previous posts again to build the ones you mention another time, but I prefer to get it all done myself, at least until I stuff up so badly that I have to use someone else design.
Well, I'll get some of those woofers ordered up, and start the cabinet, with no holes for the tweeter, so I can still make calculations and plans for that later.
I just worked out by using a standard sized 6.5" driver, ... ie what I have chosen, and a standard tweeter with a typical 100mm faceplate, and if they are actually touching, end to end in the cabinet, the lowest tweeter hz I can get for optimal is 659hz. Whee. I might even use that book + design in previous posts again to build the ones you mention another time, but I prefer to get it all done myself, at least until I stuff up so badly that I have to use someone else design.
Well, I'll get some of those woofers ordered up, and start the cabinet, with no holes for the tweeter, so I can still make calculations and plans for that later.
"but I prefer to get it all done myself'
Well I am happy to see your zeal to take this on. If you intend to do this correctly, then the Dickason book is a good foundation to learn about the subject. Dickason goes into the science and math behind the design process pretty well.
However, the magnitude of the task to truly DIY a speaker system is much, much more than you can imagine. You will get a sense of that as you converse with some of the people on this forum and start reading Dickason's book.
You should have a lot of fun at this. Best of luck.
Well I am happy to see your zeal to take this on. If you intend to do this correctly, then the Dickason book is a good foundation to learn about the subject. Dickason goes into the science and math behind the design process pretty well.
However, the magnitude of the task to truly DIY a speaker system is much, much more than you can imagine. You will get a sense of that as you converse with some of the people on this forum and start reading Dickason's book.
You should have a lot of fun at this. Best of luck.
Well yeah, I know how complex it really is. I've seen and read a lot on it already. I am still understanding, and wrapping my head around most of it, all over the place. Like... I only just learnt about that optimal distance/frequency/crossover stuff that I was calculating... well, two days ago. When I made my last monitors, I pretty much just placed them in a box that bassbox told me to make. But I know enough to see where the software, or I went wrong, and two years after I made those last monitors I learnt about attenuation and zobel networks, pulled them apart and made them sound even better again, after a redesigned crossover.
I'd love to get more into actually testing the drivers myself with a sound proof'd box and stuff, and getting graphs and testing it all together with different setups and crossovers etc... that'd be fun.
I might order myself up one of these Dickasons.
I'd love to get more into actually testing the drivers myself with a sound proof'd box and stuff, and getting graphs and testing it all together with different setups and crossovers etc... that'd be fun.
I might order myself up one of these Dickasons.
I don't have anything. My old tweeters blew, old mid/woofers blew. Lent them out to party goers... not a good idea. If it had not been my brother, he'd be dead by now.
I haven't actually bought the mid/woofers yet, I just decided on those because Jaycar was close and I made a quick decision. lol.
But the old monitors I made did use drivers from Jaycar, 5"s... I think around $40 each? The tweeters were also from Jaycar also around $40 each? both Vifa Logic?, I have no idea at all what spec's both of them were... I threw them in the bin about 3 months ago, they had burnt out bad.
The components I have are the components I ripped out of the old speakers... gold plated wire connectors x 2. And a 150watt inbuilt amp for a sub. And 2 x flared ports... around 50 or 60mm ... iirc. I assume the sub will be easy, like my last sub project, ... put a sub in the right size box, and ... bobs my uncle.
If using a sub I'd go with a smallish sealed box for the mids, makes things a LOT easier.
If you blew the Vifa logic you must be listening louder than I ever do, they should have been able to handle 30 watts easy and 100 watt peaks.
There was a little 5inch Response from Jaycar, I rather like it but used as a midrange only, can't handle deep bass at all
If you blew the Vifa logic you must be listening louder than I ever do, they should have been able to handle 30 watts easy and 100 watt peaks.
There was a little 5inch Response from Jaycar, I rather like it but used as a midrange only, can't handle deep bass at all
Yeah, I know AndyG... lost his email,
Used to get all my advice from Andy, went and listened to those satanic looking tapered pipe black horny things he made a few times... damn fine. Andy gave me the advice to use some attenuation on the tweeter and put a zobel on it. Two years after the initial build, lol.I didn't blow the Vifa's my friends at a party did... Damn idiots. Turns out my drunk cousin didn't realise my mixer was like 100% at half way. Using a Yamaha M-65 Power Amp. Drives things quite well. Meanwhile I was across the road at the pub, ... came home to smelly speakers, and no music.
I used a response sub for the last sub I made... it was really really nice, I was surprised. 10" Response I think it was. I tried to replace it when my sub blew... but it's apparently no longer made anymore.
The thing with the mid's is... I didn't always intend to use the sub on all the time... extended bass down that low seems to color my mixing when I'm producing music in an adverse manner, switching between headphones, nearfields, sub on/off, all the time while I produce, seems to work best. But when I have the sub off... and I listen to it and it's a small closed box? I get even less bass, hey? Not quite enough? Or would it satisfy?
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