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Old 27th August 2011, 05:43 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alspe View Post
DO you think is your Tysen good speaker with heavy rock and metal or is it more chill out jazz-speaker?
For heavy metal i'd suggest more woofer. I did these as another example of the genre EL166 MTM ML-TL. At the diyFEST last WE it fooled some into thinking there was a sub, and that in my BIG room.

Alpair6P (or something larger like EL70) would give more loudness capability.

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Old 27th August 2011, 07:12 PM   #92
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alspe, it's not as much about sensitivity, it's about immediate heat dissipation. Most hi-fi woofers have too much power compression.
And I'm surprised that only one manufacturer uses foam in front of the tweeter and noone uses foam in front of the woofers.
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Old 28th August 2011, 04:39 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Starre View Post
That seems strange to me!? Bi-polar means it has a + and - pole that you must use in the right direction. Non-polar means you can use it in either direction without any difference.
So you wintermute mean that if a capacitor is said to be bi-polar you mean it is of the type electrolytic as apposed to for example a film capacitor like this:
4.70u cross cap - Jantzen cross cap 4.70u 400V - Europe Audio
I am a little confused .
No as Dave said bi-polar refers to the internal construction. Polar would mean what you say (ie a positive and a negative pole) bi polar (or non-polar) electrolytics are constructed by joining two normal polarised electrolytics back to back. This is why they are in general bigger than standard electrolytics of the same capacity, joining in series halves the capacitance, so to get a 100uF bi-polar internally it is 2 X 200uF polar caps connected in series).

You certainly cannot use standard (polarized) electrolytic capacitors in a crossover. But if you see bi-polar or NP you can probably assume it is a non-polar electrolytic capacitor as opposed to an inherently non-polar film cap.

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Old 28th August 2011, 09:50 AM   #94
Starre is offline Starre  Sweden
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Thanks wintermute for that answer, I obviously needed some help .
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Old 28th August 2011, 11:45 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterTwister View Post
alspe, it's not as much about sensitivity, it's about immediate heat dissipation. Most hi-fi woofers have too much power compression.
And I'm surprised that only one manufacturer uses foam in front of the tweeter and noone uses foam in front of the woofers.
Can you example? Do you mean foam surround or foam cone!? Heat dissipation away from voice coil through the cone?
High power handling pro drivers are better than hifi drivers, if we think transient response and heat dissipation? That might be even more meaningful matter with compressed heavy rock (which sound bad usually) than with high quality "hifi music" which has much more "gaps" in music for heat to dissipate.
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Old 28th August 2011, 04:07 PM   #96
Helmuth is offline Helmuth  Netherlands
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I made some different projects and I like my two way project monitor XL a lot.

Project: monitor-XL reference values

The key to make a good two way is to find a good lowmid-driver. With a smooth response. To have a detailed sound I would look for a speaker with a low Rms-value. I did see nice one's from audax,usher,scanspeak,tangband as for hifidrivers there are also great proaudio drivers beyma,18sound ,eminence look good to me I only ask my self how they perform on second and third harmonic.

For monitor XL I used a 10" paper-cone very good sub-bas and efficiency with reasonable good low distortion. And I used a horn + driver for the low XO and very good linearity and super distortion behavior. 18sound sels a great horn + driver for a a sharpprice the xd125 would fit nice with a 10"-8" woofer.XD125 - HF Compression Driver

If you want to go for a dome tweeter I have good experience with morel they have a low resonance so you can cross low or first order. Scan speak has also very nice Low Fs dome tweeters. Usher has nice low priced scan-speak dome tweeter clones.

To get the xo right you must measure the response and phase to of the woofer and tweeter to see you got it right in the real situation. I would advise to put i a superiorZ capacitor of janzen for the tweeter wen your sure about the value you need. The janzen really gives extra brightness. I just used a mundorf supreme in my latest project sounds good but isn't bright as the janzen but more natural.
With coils I did not experienced better performance with the flat-wire ones. you only put in the series resistance in the simulation of the woofer.

It is worth to put in time in to the filter and listen if you can hear improvements or measure a better response. It is important to have a good balanced response it means often not to loose subbas and at the other side at the high frequencies can be difficult to to get it nice intact on your listening spot.
Thats a other reason to use a horn with controlled directivity.

There are also a lot of coaxial chassis to try, like tangband with dome or beyma with horn that would be the ultimate two way design as point source.


With a dome tweeter the sound become more open with angled sides it really helps a lot.
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Last edited by Helmuth; 28th August 2011 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 28th August 2011, 04:53 PM   #97
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alspe, I have not done any extensive research on this topic, all I can say is that subjective difference is there.
I meant block of foam placed in front of the drivers, only gedlee does it in his speakers, and only for tweeters. In my tests woofers also benefit from foam blocks.
And I meant heat dissipation vithin coil itself, transferring heat away from coil of course is necessary, but it happens too slow.
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Old 28th August 2011, 07:46 PM   #98
Starre is offline Starre  Sweden
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I am interested in Salas "tired2way" speaker. I have purchased the drivers for it and am now thinking of the cabinet and filters for it. From what I can see the filter is a second order Butterworth with an additional RCL-link. Can you please explain the filter a little for me? What is the crossover frequence? I have tried to figure that out but I am unsure of it.
The cabinet: do you recommend me using the dimensions or altering something? I know you reused a cabinet for this construction so I wonder if you thought about something to modify to make it even better?
Since I am building the speaker from scratch I see this possibility.
I hope I am not asking too much with this, but it would be nice to read your opinions.
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Old 28th August 2011, 08:57 PM   #99
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Hello. Unfortunately I could not find the full Leap files for it. From some notes I found, it has 2.4K cross point, 35Hz port resonance, the impedance does not go below 6 Ohm. Its not adhering to textbook roll off, acoustically is 2nd order. It was tweaked by ear +/-10% after the best crossover topology got homed in. What I posted is what used finally. I don't recommend altering box volume or dimensions anything because the diffraction is going to change and the bass resonance was well defined anyway. It still serves in my friend's system very well. TT, DAC, pre, amps, many times changed or tweaked, but he is happy with the speaker still. I recommend 50-100W amp. Will be happy to see your version finished and posted in the threads, maybe opening a build thread for it.
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Old 28th August 2011, 09:29 PM   #100
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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On a luckier note, I found in a portable computer some measurements for it. Here is the impedance, and a frequency response chart from the pair in room at 2.5m distance on sofa sitting, ear axis. This is not bass near field spliced, or anechoic, its pink noise one point, 2 speakers playing.The impedance shows it does not fall below 5 Ohm, not 6 as my notes were saying. Maybe the notes were older with a higher testing tweeter resistor, or just noting the power range region of interest. Its 3 years now and I don't remember exactly.
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