Moderating

[Peter Daniel]

Jean-Paul,

This is exactly the attitude I try to practise.

[jean-paul]

That's why I said it in the first place. I could have been more clear but what I meant was: the positive way you explain the 3-6 months needed experience for moderating must give food for thoughts to Brett.
Ah maybe I am fed up with the negative feelings I felt the past days. The whole Dice/Frank thing really changed things around here. I really hope things change back to normal again.

[pinkmouse]

Brett, I agree with everything you say, apart from I don't think we need a spleen venting thread.

My problem with moderation was with a post that was removed from the cable colour thread, in which i posted a (very small) picture from The Life of Brian movie where he opens the shutters and stands naked in front of his disciples, along with the quote from his mother "He's not the Messiah, He's a very naughty boy". This was a witty ( I thought ) reply to people who had taken the thread too seriously, as well as a joke based upon the Emperors New Clothes idea. This post was removed virtually instantly, for what I can only think was because of the naked male body shown. AFAIK, this movie is rated at 12R in the UK, so anyone can see it if accompanied by a parent and they are 12 years old. The picture is not obscene or pornographic, nor will it deprave or corrupt, rather it shows the essential fragility of the human condition in the face of mass opinion, ( rather apropriate I feel for the current discussion). I feel that the moderator concerned reacted without due thought, and still hasn't contacted me with an explanation as to why the post was removed.

In general, the moderators do a great and thankless job, and its a shame we cannot appreciate this more, but I think some of them need to have a little more of a grown up attitude to life, and bear in mind the people who use this forum are not liable to be kids.

The only new suggestion I can make is that moderators face a vote every 6 months or a year to see if the community still has their trust, BUT, Jason should rightfully still have the final say over who moderates HIS forum, so should be able to choose who he wants as moderators, rather than selection being elective as well.

[Peter Daniel]

That is another issue. Everything to decide about the rules and moderating is up to Jason, a site owner who provides us with a free entertainment. Whatever is said in this thread is treated as suggestion only.

Whatever I'm saying about moderation in this thread is only my personal opinion and shouldn't be regarded as views of a team. I'm taking a part in discussion as a member only.

[pinkmouse]

That is another issue. Everything to decide about the rules and moderating is up to Jason, a site owner who provides us with a free entertainment.

Yes I agree totally, we should thank Jason for hosting a great site.

Is there any chance of posting his guidelines to the moderators though, as I can't see from re-reading the rules where I infringed, and if the rules were stated more clearly it would be easier to post in the correct manner?

[planet10]

Originally posted by pinkmouse
My problem with moderation was with a post that was removed from the cable colour thread, in which i posted a (very small) picture from The Life of Brian movie where he opens the shutters and stands naked in front of his disciples, along with the quote from his mother "He's not the Messiah, He's a very naughty boy". This was a witty ( I thought ) reply to people who had taken the thread too seriously, as well as a joke based upon the Emperors New Clothes idea. This post was removed virtually instantly, for what I can only think was because of the naked male body shown. AFAIK, this movie is rated at 12R in the UK, so anyone can see it if accompanied by a parent and they are 12 years old. The picture is not obscene or pornographic, nor will it deprave or corrupt, rather it shows the essential fragility of the human condition in the face of mass opinion, ( rather apropriate I feel for the current discussion). I feel that the moderator concerned reacted without due thought, and still hasn't contacted me with an explanation as to why the post was removed.

I saw this post... personally i don't think it should have been pulled. As a moderator i have to stand behind the mod that did. The new Trash Bin (under development for the last month) feature is meant to allow an appeal of decisions like this (the mods are not perfect, just human like everyone else). As we excercise this area it will evolve.

dave

[roddyama]

Originally posted by pinkmouse
.....in which i posted a (very small) picture from The Life of Brian movie where he opens the shutters and stands naked in front of his disciples, ..... as a joke based upon the Emperors New Clothes idea. This post was removed virtually instantly,....

...and there was Al standing at the window for all to see, and some mod stole his punch line!

Hey Al,

I was wondering what was so funny.

Rodd Yamashita

[Brett]

Originally posted by Peter Daniel
Brett,

This is really well thought out set of rules. Did you figure them out yourself or just took off some other forum?

Thanks Peter. They are my thoughts, the synthesis of a lot of thinking on how this forum should be run, and based on the experiences I've had both here and on other forums. I've seen some pretty stupid stuff done here and elsewhere and poor moderation, even a <i>perception</i> of poor moderation can and does stifle input by many people.

One of the reason's I've been so vocal recently is I've found that for every person who has a comment to make, there will be at least 10 who don't speak up for their own reasons.

As a member I like them a lot. As a moderator, this is the first one I don't like:

* Moderators should have a fixed and limited term of office

I stand by my original comments and feel that this is <i>imperative</i>. There is too much opportunity for abuse of power/privilege in an endless positition, and too many people who will covet the position simply for the power it allows. With a fixed term, that is less of an issue, people can simply do the job for an agreed period, and step down. Many other people would probably feel more inclined to take on the role for a fixed term as that is less onerous than an open ended committment, and so contribute directly to the running of the forum.
Someone made a suggestion about voting people in and out, and I feel that is a mistake too as then it could simply be a personality issue, with people voting say you (PD) in because of your great contributions in audio, and not for your performance as a moderator.

I found out that moderating is not really about fighting with people, but by offering advice from somebody who looks from a sideline, is not involved emotionally and can clearly estimate a given situation. The more good I did on a forum the more I like moderating. I never really received hate mail and only on few occasions my actions required correction (your case was one of them, Brett ). But when I did correction, everythng was fine (I hope).
........

There were some instances were I had to put down a member, because his demands were out of line, yet when I used low key approach showing respect there were no hard feelings between us.

Yes, this is a good approach, and you personally are not one of the moderators I feel are doing a poor job. The recent example you mention between us in this post was well handled on your part, and I should have said so at the time. My energy about that thread split was in part because of the event itself and also because of other decidedly poor moderation decisions around that time, some of which are the basis for current events.
<i>Some</i> moderation events here have been about telling people who to think, act or express themselves, and that is not appropriaite (except for swearing, serious porn links etc as noted before)

The more I act as a moderator, the more I gain experience and the more I understand what my job is all about. It takes just about 3-6 months to get the feeling on proper moderating. And Brett, you want the guy who's just about right to do his job to leave the stage? You must be either joking or never been a moderator.

I disagree that it takes 6 months to learn how to do the job. Generally here it requires very little (or should, except for the couple who've over-moderated). If the other suggestions (or similar) I've made are implemented then there will hopefully be less need for moderation, or confusion over specific events. My favourite forum online is completely unmoderated, and has discussions that are far more dynamic and interesting than some of the ones here. If you speak crap there, you will be told quickly and bluntly, as there is no one hovering to edit or delete posts (none are ever deleted by the management) so people speak freely and honestly, not modifying what they say to suit the perception of what a moderator thinks.

I have been a moderator in other forums, both online and in person. I have some experience and training in other fields that relate to this process (group dynamics), as well as having been an instructor at College (simply another forum in terms of maintaing flow and damping strong destructive interpersonal dynamics) and private institutions. One of my mentors was also the Chairman of the Board of Directors of numerous companies, and I learnt a great deal watching the way he worked the process. Several years ago, I was also the head person in a process of negotiation for the employment contracts of a group of 700 people; many, many of these meeting were held face-to-face and required far more tact, understanding and balance, fast, correct and fair decisions than the moderators' job here does, or a riot would have ensued. So I feel I have a good understanding of the processes required to do the job.

<b>Sidebar:</b> I hope Jason reads these posts and takes them in the spirit with which they are intended, same as he did with the emails we exchanged around the time of the rules posting and start of moderation. The faults here can be fixed, and the forum be even better for the process. Well, such is my hope anyway. If I didn't care, I could/would have simply left.

Cheers and regards.

[Brett]

Originally posted by planet10


I saw this post... personally i don't think it should have been pulled. As a moderator i have to stand behind the mod that did.

Why?
If you feel something was done incorrectly then you should say it clearly, whether it was another moderator or not. In fact a good case can be made for making a comment, <b>especially</b> if another moderator was in error. If it's perceived that you all stick together and watch each other's backs, even at the expense of the forum, which is certainly how it looks at the moment, how can members have any faith in your decisions?
This is the basis of corrupt behaviour.

[Peter Daniel]

Originally posted by Brett



<b>Sidebar:</b> I hope Jason reads these posts and takes them in the spirit with which they are intended, same as he did with the emails we exchanged around the time of the rules posting and start of moderation. The faults here can be fixed, and the forum be even better for the process. Well, such is my hope anyway. If I didn't care, I could/would have simply left.

Cheers and regards.

I also feel that you have a good understanding of the processes required to do the moderators job. I only hope that the thought exchange that is taking place in this thread will make this forum an even better place. I care about it and I will do my best to make it happen.