Rethink Moderation
(this belongs here, rather than in the "last word" thread - I apologize for the duplication)
I have the same problem with the tubes forum that many others have had against other sections of DIYAudio, which is selective moderation.
I don't mind somebody disagreeing with me, or even insulting me - bring it on - but what I do mind is my responses being deleted, moved to "texas", forcefully edited, etc, by a moderator.
And please spare me the "mods are only human" speech. I have had emails sent to me from Dave/"Planet10" explaining that he did not remove someone else's post (which contained open insults, and vulgarity) because he agreed with it. Where in the forum rules does it say that insults are acceptable if a mod thinks they are warranted??? This is not a question of "fairness", it's simply a question of applying the same rules to everybody, whether you agree with their point of view or not.
I have also had Peter Daniels threaten to sin bin me for not agreeing that capacitors have different "sounds". Now, whether you agree with my statement or not, you MUST agree that it is inappropriate for a moderator to take that stance with a member.
When I'm allowed to fight on a level playing field, I'd be happy to participate again.
It would also be nice if Frank and "mr feedback" would not start rumors that I'm unhelpful or rude in my private emails with other members, as I have never ever done that.
cheers
(this belongs here, rather than in the "last word" thread - I apologize for the duplication)
I have the same problem with the tubes forum that many others have had against other sections of DIYAudio, which is selective moderation.
I don't mind somebody disagreeing with me, or even insulting me - bring it on - but what I do mind is my responses being deleted, moved to "texas", forcefully edited, etc, by a moderator.
And please spare me the "mods are only human" speech. I have had emails sent to me from Dave/"Planet10" explaining that he did not remove someone else's post (which contained open insults, and vulgarity) because he agreed with it. Where in the forum rules does it say that insults are acceptable if a mod thinks they are warranted??? This is not a question of "fairness", it's simply a question of applying the same rules to everybody, whether you agree with their point of view or not.
I have also had Peter Daniels threaten to sin bin me for not agreeing that capacitors have different "sounds". Now, whether you agree with my statement or not, you MUST agree that it is inappropriate for a moderator to take that stance with a member.
When I'm allowed to fight on a level playing field, I'd be happy to participate again.
It would also be nice if Frank and "mr feedback" would not start rumors that I'm unhelpful or rude in my private emails with other members, as I have never ever done that.
cheers
DEAR JOEL....
Hi,
Very often I am still browsing through the forum for hours when you're signed of.
As far as I can remember, I've never, ever noticed a response from you to the forum disappear or edited by a moderator.
In fact I very much doubt they have the administrative rights to do so.
What I do recall is that you were complaining about a post that had dissapeared but I can tell you with 100% certainty that you'd just forgotten where you had posted.
Namely outside the "Tubes" forum and into the "Everything Else" forum.
I specifically recall posting to that thread to bring it to your attention...it may not have sunk in.
Stop complaining, Joel. You're not exactly without fault either.
It would be even nicer if you read correctly what was being said...
And it's not just a rumour, neither is it a lie as far as my writing in that thread was concerned at that point in time.
Surely, it would be best if you took it up with the person concerned.
I doubt very much you'd be making anyone happy if I were asked to publish private e-mail correspondence here?
Lighten up and start posting...hey, we may even give you a dedicated "Welcome back Joel" thread.
Cheers,
Hi,
Very often I am still browsing through the forum for hours when you're signed of.
As far as I can remember, I've never, ever noticed a response from you to the forum disappear or edited by a moderator.
In fact I very much doubt they have the administrative rights to do so.
What I do recall is that you were complaining about a post that had dissapeared but I can tell you with 100% certainty that you'd just forgotten where you had posted.
Namely outside the "Tubes" forum and into the "Everything Else" forum.
I specifically recall posting to that thread to bring it to your attention...it may not have sunk in.
Stop complaining, Joel. You're not exactly without fault either.
It would be even nicer if you read correctly what was being said...
And it's not just a rumour, neither is it a lie as far as my writing in that thread was concerned at that point in time.
Surely, it would be best if you took it up with the person concerned.
I doubt very much you'd be making anyone happy if I were asked to publish private e-mail correspondence here?
Lighten up and start posting...hey, we may even give you a dedicated "Welcome back Joel" thread.
Cheers,
Re: Rethink Moderation
Joel,
It is policy not to edit, but to just move them to Texas -- i certainly never edited any of Joel's.
Your complaints about Frank insulting you were reviewed by all the mods, and a disicion was made on that basis. Certainly you can dish it out better than you can take it.
During this conversation amoungst mods we were reminded of the board motto... projects by the fanatics, for the fanatics.
Current moderation policy is to do as little as possible. Clear contreventions of policy are dealth with, stuff that is borderline usually goes the direction of do nothing.
One can always appeal posts sent to Texas.
dave
Joel,
It is policy not to edit, but to just move them to Texas -- i certainly never edited any of Joel's.
Your complaints about Frank insulting you were reviewed by all the mods, and a disicion was made on that basis. Certainly you can dish it out better than you can take it.
During this conversation amoungst mods we were reminded of the board motto... projects by the fanatics, for the fanatics.
Current moderation policy is to do as little as possible. Clear contreventions of policy are dealth with, stuff that is borderline usually goes the direction of do nothing.
One can always appeal posts sent to Texas.
dave
Re: Rethink Moderation
IMO that's the biggest problem you have. You use a Forum as a fighting ground to support your ideas. And that's what Forum is not for. It is a place to share and exchange ideas, to learn and observe, to give and joke (if opportunity arises). It's a place created by fanatics, for the fanatics. You obviously have a problem with Forum's motto, that's why you may feel that moderation is unfare towards you. But things may change, if you can....
Joel said:
IMO that's the biggest problem you have. You use a Forum as a fighting ground to support your ideas. And that's what Forum is not for. It is a place to share and exchange ideas, to learn and observe, to give and joke (if opportunity arises
). It's a place created by fanatics, for the fanatics. You obviously have a problem with Forum's motto, that's why you may feel that moderation is unfare towards you. But things may change, if you can....
Re: Rethink Moderation
To refresh everybody's memory, here's the capacitor incident: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=82815#post82815
The sinbin threat wasn't about capacitor sound, but after receiving few complaints regarding Joel's attitude, and another incident in video section, where member was sin binned for spreading bad attitude, I just pointed that fact to Joel. But as usually, he prefers to bend the facts to his advantage.
Joel said:
To refresh everybody's memory, here's the capacitor incident: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=82815#post82815
The sinbin threat wasn't about capacitor sound, but after receiving few complaints regarding Joel's attitude, and another incident in video section, where member was sin binned for spreading bad attitude, I just pointed that fact to Joel. But as usually, he prefers to bend the facts to his advantage.
Someone either:
...Bottom Line...
IMO...
I want Joel back. We need him. I miss his outspokeness and his forthright opinions. I miss his utter lack of pretentiousness. Most of all I miss his interesting ideas and use of unusal valves and circuits.
Sure he argues and vents his frustrations - I like that too. With Joel you get the complete person and I miss that.
I don't think Joel's post needed moderating - anymore than, say, Frank's do ...
Moderating should stop threats, violence or sex on our boards not rudeness or arguments
ciao
James
IMO...
I want Joel back. We need him. I miss his outspokeness and his forthright opinions. I miss his utter lack of pretentiousness. Most of all I miss his interesting ideas and use of unusal valves and circuits.
Sure he argues and vents his frustrations - I like that too. With Joel you get the complete person and I miss that.
I don't think Joel's post needed moderating - anymore than, say, Frank's do ...
Moderating should stop threats, violence or sex on our boards not rudeness or arguments
ciao
James
Well, as everyone has an opinion, I have mine.
Rudeness, if unchecked, can be the death of a board. Just let less knowledgable members get too intimidated to post, boom, there starts the slippery slope...less members...less completed projects...less feedback...less new ideas.
Have you noticed how many times an original post is left responseless for quite a length of time, then some newbie ventures a response, and there's a flurry of borderline or outrightly rude responses shooting down his advice? Tell me how that is good for the overall well being?
Re: Re: Rethink Moderation
Actually Peter, this is the very attitude I was referring to. Both your comments and Dave's above say the same thing - if we the mods don't like your point of view - if we perceive you as being "negative" in any way - we will move and/or remove your posts. Well, how do you determine where a genuine disagreement of ideas is "negative", or not so? It has seemed to me that your sole criteria is whether the person in question is part of your little club or not.
And it's real easy for Frank, Brett, and Eric to all say "stop whining", when they are all clearly in the "in" crowd and have all the leaway in the world for their responses.
Peter - yes, it says "for the fanatics". It does not say "for the anti-scientific, anti-mathmatics, anti-measurement, anti-fundamental, mystically inclined". Or maybe it should...
Fred - if I had a nickel for every unsubstantive post of yours, I could buy a gold plated chassis for my next 10 projects. Righteous indignation? Have you ever read your own posts???
James, John, and even Frank - thank you for the positve comments.
Peter Daniel said:
Actually Peter, this is the very attitude I was referring to. Both your comments and Dave's above say the same thing - if we the mods don't like your point of view - if we perceive you as being "negative" in any way - we will move and/or remove your posts. Well, how do you determine where a genuine disagreement of ideas is "negative", or not so? It has seemed to me that your sole criteria is whether the person in question is part of your little club or not.
And it's real easy for Frank, Brett, and Eric to all say "stop whining", when they are all clearly in the "in" crowd and have all the leaway in the world for their responses.
Peter - yes, it says "for the fanatics". It does not say "for the anti-scientific, anti-mathmatics, anti-measurement, anti-fundamental, mystically inclined". Or maybe it should...
Fred - if I had a nickel for every unsubstantive post of yours, I could buy a gold plated chassis for my next 10 projects. Righteous indignation? Have you ever read your own posts???
James, John, and even Frank - thank you for the positve comments.
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