Terry Cain's BIB -why does it work and does anyone have those Fostex Craft Handbooks? - Page 81 - diyAudio
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Old 5th June 2006, 02:26 PM   #801
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Default fostex fe108ez bib's

hello all,

finally found the time to put together my first full range project and figured this would be a good time to share, with all the recent talk of these drivers in the bib. of course, the looks pale in comparison to the recent photos posted of terry cain's i-bibs, but what the hey.

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size.

taking dmasons advice, i sprung for some nice 18mm baltic birch. closer inspection will reveal that they are not quite a box, as i added a .5 centimeters to the front and back panels to account for any bad cuts, of which there were none.

currently the speakers are driven by a charlize amp and kookaburra pre. the speaker cables are a single twisted pair of cat5 cables soldered directly to the drivers. they are still in the sheath with the other twisted pairs, to try later on if need be.

so far i have resisted the urge to tweak anything other than room placement and use of the large base that is not yet attached. i would like to wait a few months before trying any dampening or changing cables to more twisted pairs, magnet wire, etc.

right now they sound quite nice, but are highly dependent on room placement. i am not able to keep them permanently in the corners but have placed them temporarily and the sound really fills out. even these "little" bib's do not fit my gf's room aesthetic and are relegated to the little studio. i believe the room is a little small and get a significant boom when i am too close to the back wall.

i can only compare the sound to my tannoy bookshelves and the vandersteen 2ce's that i had for years. while they thoroughly trounce the tannoy bookshelves in all areas, they do not have the warm, mellow sound i remember from the vandies, nor the deep bass. bad or thin recordings sound really bad and thin. however, i don't remember this type of clarity from the vandies and acoustic and chamber music sound great.

all in all i think these speakers have great potential and i am very glad i embarked on this full range journey. thanks to all who have so graciously and willingly helped along the way!

back to the music, it does sound like will oldham is in the room with me.

larry
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Old 5th June 2006, 02:35 PM   #802
MuaDibb is offline MuaDibb  United States
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Wow those C & C speakers look nice. I made a test cab with Cyburg Needles dimensions for some TB-871 set up just like that except it vented out the front. It didn't sound bad, but now I see the error, I had it backwards. I think maybe another test cab would be in order now. Any thoughts on dimensions? Or will the Cyburg dims be appropriate?



I also recently acquired some Neo-Fone drivers on E-bay. I built some cabs for the Monacors but didn't take into account the shipping cost. Fortunately the dims are the same. The Neo's are built quite nicely. I will install them this week and post some pics and comments. The gentleman I purchased from had this to say :

The Neo-Fone was one of the few drivers that I didn't run distortion curves on. While I did run a frequency response measurement, it was not saved since I used it only to notch-out minor resonances with the Behringer EQ. The driver, as I recall, was much better damped than the Seas Magnesium Excel drivers we have (W15's) and vastly superior to the aluminum L15's, sonically. I didn't compare the frequency response measurement with the online version, but I remember it being fairly smooth. The Neo-Fone cone did not impart too much of its sonic character on music, unlike the strong sonic character imparted by many metal or paper cones.
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Old 5th June 2006, 02:44 PM   #803
dmason is offline dmason  United States
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Fred,

I did not try Scott's design. I had put off doing anything with them for months, and simply decided to give them to me bro' as a B-day present. He is a professional cabinetmaker, and the beautiful Supravox drivers inspired him to get busy and build some of the Rx bass reflex cabs, in furniture ply, floorstanding, in dark stained Cherry veneer, port on the back, very nice looking apparently, -very understated, and everyone really likes the sound, all who listen are getting tuned in to wideband glory. A happy ending, and I got a gold star.

Frankly, I am anxious to see what Adire Audio/Hemp Acoustics is going to be releasing in the next while. I can say with accuracy to expect a 6.5 with a Qts=.55, very healthy Xmax, designed to be very versatile.

Do I like the BIB 168? Yes, very much. I think that the 168 is pretty close to the ideal BIB driver, of those currently available, and I think the Fostex Sigmae are an unreal value, especially considering the technical resources available to Fostex for transducer engineering. I think the 108 easily has the best mids and highs of ALL the Fostex drivers, but requires bass augmentation, whereas the 168 does not.

Giantstairs

Just noticed your post; great work, thanks for the shots. The real story begins only after a paltry 1000 hours of hard playing time to loosen up the driver. They are entirely different sounding from fresh, mine were such a disappointment at first that I couldnt even listen to them. I use 24awg magnet wire or similar for these, and with a couple watts SET and properly cooked drivers, yes, they are durn sweet. Good luck and do persevere, the rewards are there.
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Old 5th June 2006, 03:23 PM   #804
fred76 is offline fred76  Philippines
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Quote:
He is a professional cabinetmaker, and the beautiful Supravox drivers inspired him to get busy and build some of the Rx bass reflex cabs, in furniture ply, floorstanding, in dark stained Cherry veneer, port on the back, very nice looking apparently, -very understated, and everyone really likes the sound, all who listen are getting tuned in to wideband glory. A happy ending, and I got a gold star.
dmason,

It's cool to have a pro cabinetmaker as kin. Free woodworking advice is just icing on the cake I bet.


giantstairs,

Excellent work and lovely finish. I wish we had baltic birch ply here.
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Old 5th June 2006, 05:19 PM   #805
fred76 is offline fred76  Philippines
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Click the image to open in full size.

TC's sense of aesthetics... Just look at the bottom terminus.

*this pic courtesy of Jon L., and previous pic from Audiofederation*
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Old 5th June 2006, 06:48 PM   #806
dhenryp is offline dhenryp  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by fred76
Click the image to open in full size.
This was obviously taken during High End Audio Cruise held on the USS Poseiden....
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Old 6th June 2006, 01:47 AM   #807
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Default Re: fostex fe108ez bib's

Quote:
Originally posted by giantstairs
they do not have the warm, mellow sound i remember from the vandies, nor the deep bass. bad or thin recordings sound really bad and thin. however, i don't remember this type of clarity from the vandies and acoustic and chamber music sound great.
"Clarity" is thing that really sets the I-BIB apart from most other speakers. That may be a large part of my impression of "lean-ness". I was able to walk 30 feet into several rooms with other systems at HE2006 and then back to the I-BIB's over and over again , and they had all others beat for musical clarity. The notes of instruments were so more clearly defined, it was surprising. It's hard to tell now, if the speakers that I thought had a more "full" sound were actually less accurate or bloated.


Quote:
Originally posted by dmason
[B]I think the 108 easily has the best mids and highs of ALL the Fostex drivers, but requires bass augmentation, whereas the 168 does not.
A Subwoofer really has to be considered an mandatory part of a 108 based system. I'd guess that the I-BIB dropped off pretty steeply <100Hz. But, the blending with the sub in that room was nearly seamless.


Quote:
Originally posted by fred76
TC's sense of aesthetics... Just look at the bottom terminus.
WHat can't be seen in Fred's picture is that the bottom opening is not simply angled back at ~45 degrees. The angled sides are actually a row of half circles(make sense?) which gives a subtle, sculpted. It's a simple little addition, but really enhaces the overall appearance.
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Old 6th June 2006, 05:16 AM   #808
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Default Re: Re: fostex fe108ez bib's

Quote:
Originally posted by darkmoebius
A Subwoofer really has to be considered an mandatory part of a 108 based system. I'd guess that the I-BIB dropped off pretty steeply <100Hz. But, the blending with the sub in that room was nearly seamless.
Interesting...although it looks like from the pictures that the i-BIBs aren't positioned in a way to load the corners like in the original design.

Did Terry actually set these up, or has he just changed his approach to better integrate with the Bailey sub?
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Old 6th June 2006, 06:56 AM   #809
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Default Re: Re: Re: fostex fe108ez bib's

Quote:
Originally posted by AudioNewb
Interesting...although it looks like from the pictures that the i-BIBs aren't positioned in a way to load the corners like in the original design.

Did Terry actually set these up, or has he just changed his approach to better integrate with the Bailey sub?
Good point, AudioNewb.

No, Terry wasn't in LA and had nothing to really do with the setup. I guess he had just finished the prototype and shipped it down to arrive the day before the show opened.

Paul Lim, the Cain & Cain dealer, didn't really know anything about what he was getting except to expect something totally new. As is usual for audio shows, he had very little time (hours) to get his room setup before the show opened for the press & industry preview. He tried to get the best possible sound under the circumstances.

So, you really have the worst of both worlds at these shows - brand new products and unknown acoustic environments. Add to that, new drivers that could use a few hundred hours break-in. Still sounded pretty good, though - lots of potential in this design.

BTW, what is the best way to place the BIB's?
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Old 6th June 2006, 03:25 PM   #810
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Corners. It's what they're designed for.
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