I agree here. Simulations are fun, but measurements of a reflex or MLTL versus a somewhat equivalent Karlsonator would probably favor the MLTL in terms of extension, but the K'ator would have more output and probably subjective punch in the midbass, with a steeper cutoff underneath because it still is a BP alignement. As GregB mentionned, it's merely a re-balancing of the unavoidable trade-offs to obtain a bit more low-end in exchange for some of the extra gain that we might not be needing with anything but very low Qt drivers.
IG
Hold on - we have to define what a "Karlson" is. Wave guide curve, multiple resonant chambers, port between chambers, and I am quite serious in saying, TH (where the back waves comes around to meet the front wave internally** after a properly chosen path length*? Or all of those?
That's the magic of the Karlson - it's a hybrid and needs little stuffing to suppress the inner sounds.
Can't get any of that in a cylinder except the cute curve.
Ben
*and their manner of meeting is engineered in a way TH advocates can only dream about
** BR boxes do the mixing in the room
Last edited:
yes - the original Karlson is a great and unique hybrid. For the experimenter who likes to piddle, the form below might be fun, We know the K-tube can be front loaded as with Karlson's tweeter and that it can work well rear loaded as with Silvercore's Lowther setup - but it can also be driven like Karlson's Ultra-Fidelity series so the speaker is angled back on an oval baffle and fires up the pipe - it would take an appropriate section below the driver to form a back chamber - or just let it sail. This thin-wall mailing tube isn't rigid enough to work at the levels I like. K-builder Carl mentioned some awfully tall pipes.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hi Greg and guy's. I want to do some questions about this schema:
1) I have 3 K's (2 in 15" +4" and 1 more 12" + 4") using original plans and internal configurations. I see that your project is very different. I am not sure if it is a labyrinth, a horn, a tube, or a mix of them.
2) I want to make 2 of them using car speakers of 5". Do you suggest to use the 6" plans with a smaller speaker, or to make it in 5/6 scale?
Please, see my post about scaling down Karlson's.
Thanks in advance.
1) I have 3 K's (2 in 15" +4" and 1 more 12" + 4") using original plans and internal configurations. I see that your project is very different. I am not sure if it is a labyrinth, a horn, a tube, or a mix of them.
2) I want to make 2 of them using car speakers of 5". Do you suggest to use the 6" plans with a smaller speaker, or to make it in 5/6 scale?
Please, see my post about scaling down Karlson's.
Thanks in advance.
some years ago on Job Ulfman's Karlson forum, the late Leander Adams had Skip Magnuson make a K5-T-line- it was something like the Karlsonator - the Polk 5.25" coax I measured had qt ~>1 and high fs, so this type would probably do better than a reflex-driven K with regards to bass. Little K's can be kool.
a car coax might work sealed or aperiodic vented in something a bit smaller than a standard K8. xrk971 can examine the Karlsonator.
I don't know how to analyze the K5-TL - its interesting that the front chamber is the same size as the rear - Moray James heard this cabinet
and commented favorably on its sound
a car coax might work sealed or aperiodic vented in something a bit smaller than a standard K8. xrk971 can examine the Karlsonator.
I don't know how to analyze the K5-TL - its interesting that the front chamber is the same size as the rear - Moray James heard this cabinet
and commented favorably on its sound
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Last edited:
Get me some T/S params for your 5 in drivers and I will simulate and optimize a Karlsonator for you. A Karlsonator is a hybrid mass loaded tapered quarter wave transmission-line (ML-TQWT) with an Karlson-coupler on the output "horn".
hey X - there should be a good Karlsonator for Visaton's BG20 - it was pretty good in a slit vent K12 Visaton BG20-8 8" Full-Range Speaker with Whizzer Cone 292-548
I did that for you already here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/237948-speaker-kicks-butt-large-spaces-20.html#post3555941 For some reason it doesn't work well, I can try tweaking cabinet dims to see if it can be improved.
fwiw I'll have to compare the Qs of BetsyK vs BG20 - probably can guess Vas from Sd, fs and published mms. ASD1001, which was used with Hawthorne's original "Silver Iris" 15cx sounds pretty good - PRV's D280 too but price has increased to around $38 each. I have a Mylar type diaphragm diaphragm B52 driver that's pretty nice on a 109oz magnet Eminence 12cx - those are ~$50ea.
sorry about the wording - I meant the B52 polymide compression driver was $50. Somewhere in my mess there may be a pair of dusty Beta 12CX which you could have if I could get someone to take to ups or usps - IIRC those were out of spec and qts came in around 0.62. for all the help you've done on the K, I'd get ya a new 10cx.
Mystery Driver Sim in Karlsonator
I ran this rather interesting simulation of a driver that has been around for a long time. It is a 3x3 array in a Karlsonator that is scaled up by 14/12 overall and scaled 1.3X for the back chamber volume, and additional 2.3X for the vent (top channel area). So really, a highly modded K'nator... If you look at the frequency response curve for 1 watt at 1 meter, you will see that it is very efficient, the impedance curve shows that it is a nominal 8 ohm speaker as presented to the amplifier and the impedance is all very manageable with low impedance amps, the cone displacement curve shows very little cone motion - 0.4 mm above 50 Hz. The next plot is the impulse response which looks very clean - should have great transient response for drums. Last plot is the freq response at a typical listening position of 3m. Anyhow, I think this is an interesting option for a Karlsonator, and one that has the potential for great HF as it is a 4 in nominal driver. If you have not figured it out by now, and I tell you that all 9 drivers are wired in series. With this info you should have figured out what driver this is.
I ran this rather interesting simulation of a driver that has been around for a long time. It is a 3x3 array in a Karlsonator that is scaled up by 14/12 overall and scaled 1.3X for the back chamber volume, and additional 2.3X for the vent (top channel area). So really, a highly modded K'nator... If you look at the frequency response curve for 1 watt at 1 meter, you will see that it is very efficient, the impedance curve shows that it is a nominal 8 ohm speaker as presented to the amplifier and the impedance is all very manageable with low impedance amps, the cone displacement curve shows very little cone motion - 0.4 mm above 50 Hz. The next plot is the impulse response which looks very clean - should have great transient response for drums. Last plot is the freq response at a typical listening position of 3m. Anyhow, I think this is an interesting option for a Karlsonator, and one that has the potential for great HF as it is a 4 in nominal driver. If you have not figured it out by now, and I tell you that all 9 drivers are wired in series. With this info you should have figured out what driver this is.
Attachments
Last edited:
Visaton FR10 in 0.6X Scale Karlsonator
I scaled the base Karlsonator as follows: 0.6X overall, 0.7X additional scale by width, 0.7X additional scale for top channel vent. The FR10 is a relatively inexpensive driver and when paired as a double parallel load for 4 ohms, it has a surprisingly flat bass response. The impedance is very nice, as is the cone displacement and impulse function. The cabinet will be circa 18 in high 9 in wide x 10 in deep. This is one KenLBird's favorite drivers - you should build it Ken.
I scaled the base Karlsonator as follows: 0.6X overall, 0.7X additional scale by width, 0.7X additional scale for top channel vent. The FR10 is a relatively inexpensive driver and when paired as a double parallel load for 4 ohms, it has a surprisingly flat bass response. The impedance is very nice, as is the cone displacement and impulse function. The cabinet will be circa 18 in high 9 in wide x 10 in deep. This is one KenLBird's favorite drivers - you should build it Ken.
