Thanks for the info.
I have PDF's of the datasheets for the CS8412 and TDA1543.
The Receiver is powered from 5v then? Do I need those TL431 regulator's if I use 6V battery supply?
What is the purpose of the Cs pin?
Do you use the analog filtering on the original DAC schematic?
I have PDF's of the datasheets for the CS8412 and TDA1543.
The Receiver is powered from 5v then? Do I need those TL431 regulator's if I use 6V battery supply?
What is the purpose of the Cs pin?
Do you use the analog filtering on the original DAC schematic?
Here's the schematic I used for DAC and PS. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=172294#post172294
You need to lower 6V to 5V so those TL431 might be handy, or you might simply ues series resistor. I have no clue what would sound better?😉
You need to lower 6V to 5V so those TL431 might be handy, or you might simply ues series resistor. I have no clue what would sound better?😉
hmm... only question really?
Since you do not use output muting transistors or relays, How do you wire the Cs pin?
Thanks!!!
Since you do not use output muting transistors or relays, How do you wire the Cs pin?
Thanks!!!
I don't even know which Cs pin is. The only pins beside PS, grounds and filt that I connected are: 17,18,23 (to ground) and 24 to + dig supply. I've seen schematics where those pins were not connected at all, any advice?
Reclocking
Peter,
You built the SMT version of a reclocker using 74VHC74. Have you listened to its impact on the sound of your cs8412/tda1543 yet?
Peter,
You built the SMT version of a reclocker using 74VHC74. Have you listened to its impact on the sound of your cs8412/tda1543 yet?
Not yet, still working on PS. I will use separate trransformer for clock and logic. Should be done today.😉
Interested to hear your results
Will you reclock just bck or data as well? Or try each and report on that? What freq of clock are you using for asynchronous or is it simply an inverted clock? What type of clock is it? A simple canned osc. or the one ELSO uses with tunable inductors?
Will you reclock just bck or data as well? Or try each and report on that? What freq of clock are you using for asynchronous or is it simply an inverted clock? What type of clock is it? A simple canned osc. or the one ELSO uses with tunable inductors?
I will reclock everything and I'm using off shelf crystal (104 Mhz ) with Elso's circuit (with inductors).
You'll probably find 104 MHz and it's harmonics at the output. The higher the frequency the better it strays through the DAC. You'll have to use RF techniques to keep your new baby quiet. Sections separated by shielding, all sections covered etc.
I think Kusonoki did not use 50 MHz without a reason.
Concerning the pinning of CS8412: pins 13, 23, 17, 18 to ground. 24 is connected to V+
I think Kusonoki did not use 50 MHz without a reason.
Concerning the pinning of CS8412: pins 13, 23, 17, 18 to ground. 24 is connected to V+
another question
Ok.. heres it so far:
Use 3 seperate 6V SLA batteries and those TL431 shunt regulators. Use the triplet of 100uf BG FK series, 270n, and 10nF caps at the receiver and DAC supply pins.
What type of 10nF cap should I use at the input to the receiver on RXP and RXN???
The negative of all 3 batteries will be tied together, and all grounds will be routed back to this point.
Use 4.7uf BG N series caps in the cancelling pair configuration on the output.
Where can I get these caps from? AVX 0612 270n Z5U and AVX 0612 10n X7R??
Thats about all...
Anything special for the filter on the FILT pin?
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok.. heres it so far:
Use 3 seperate 6V SLA batteries and those TL431 shunt regulators. Use the triplet of 100uf BG FK series, 270n, and 10nF caps at the receiver and DAC supply pins.
What type of 10nF cap should I use at the input to the receiver on RXP and RXN???
The negative of all 3 batteries will be tied together, and all grounds will be routed back to this point.
Use 4.7uf BG N series caps in the cancelling pair configuration on the output.
Where can I get these caps from? AVX 0612 270n Z5U and AVX 0612 10n X7R??
Thats about all...
Anything special for the filter on the FILT pin?
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!
how to calculate I/V resisors and ref. resistor
Koinichiwa,
Okay, let's do this one more time. This is actually quite clear from the datasheet if you ask me.
I have already run through this on the gainclone Board, but the search engine there sucks, so I'll run this again. Someone check if I get the same numbers twice... ;-)
Anyway, our absolute, maximum output swing is 1.8V to +V -1.2V. So for 5V this is 5V -1.2V -1.8V = 2V.
The DAC's output full scale current is rated as 2.3mA typhcial, +/-0.35mA. If we assume for a moment the typhical TDA1543 we have 2V peak-peak permissable Voltage swing and 2.3mA peak-peak current swing.
The I/V resistor hence becomes 2V/2.3mA = 869 Ohm. NPV is 910 Ohm, Kusonoki San obviously got away using 1k.
Now the next step. Our "midpoint" voltage must be 1.8V+swing/2 and thus 1.8V+2V/2V =2.8V.
This means we need to have the output produce a current giving 2.8V across a 910 Ohm resistor for digital silence or 1.15mA output current. So the total current must be 3.07mA of which 1.15mA are supplied by the DAC.
Looking at page 5 of the TDA1543 Datasheet we see the DAC output composed out of a variable current sink (the actual DAC) and a fixed current source (controlled by Rref).
Now Vref is fixed at nominal 2.2V and the "gain" for the reference current drawn out of the Vref pin is nominally 2.
As our DAC sinks 1.15mA and 3.07mA are delivered to our external I/V resistor to set the midpoint we need to make 1.15mA+3.07 = 4.22mA flow through our current source and thus 4.22mA/2 = 2.11mA through the resistor from Vref to ground.
With 2.2V reference Voltage and 2.11mA current the Rref resistor should be 1.04k, 1k NPV.
If we want to maximise the DAC's dynamic range, we can ramp up the Supply Voltage to 8V. According to the Datasheet this fully permissable as typhical operation. The ABSOLUTE MAX supply Voltage rating is 9V.
So lets assume we are like Austin Powers and "like to live dangerous". This means we set +V at 8.6V by using a 7808 and a diode.
Our output Voltage swing can now be 1.8V to 8.6V - 1.2V = 7.4V or 5.6V peak-peak (2V RMS). Our full scale current is still only 2.3mA, so our I/V resistors become 5.6V/2.3mA=2.43k NPV = 2k4.
To get the output to the new midpoint of 1.8V+(5.6V/2) = 4.6V. We will have to have 4.6V/2k4 = 1.92mA flowing in our 2k4 resistor, plus our 1.15mA DAC digital silence current, so 3.07mA. In our reference resistor 3.07mA/2 = 1.535mA need to flow, so 2.2V/1.535mA=1.43k, NPV 1k5.
This will of course totally max out the output voltage range and I would suspect that given the permissable tolerance in series production of the chip you would have to select the chips, maybe 1 out of 10 will make the grade.
Does that clear up any remaning certainties?
Sayonara
PS, Kusonokis first DAC used 4 Chips in Parallel, 9V Supply and 620 Ohm IV, plus 390 Ohm Rref. Scaled to signle chip this would be using NPV E12 Resistors the same values I calculated above and is for the I/V resistor consistent with Stereophiles measurements on the Progression DAC....
Koinichiwa,
Peter Daniel said:
Okay, let's do this one more time. This is actually quite clear from the datasheet if you ask me.
I have already run through this on the gainclone Board, but the search engine there sucks, so I'll run this again. Someone check if I get the same numbers twice... ;-)
Anyway, our absolute, maximum output swing is 1.8V to +V -1.2V. So for 5V this is 5V -1.2V -1.8V = 2V.
The DAC's output full scale current is rated as 2.3mA typhcial, +/-0.35mA. If we assume for a moment the typhical TDA1543 we have 2V peak-peak permissable Voltage swing and 2.3mA peak-peak current swing.
The I/V resistor hence becomes 2V/2.3mA = 869 Ohm. NPV is 910 Ohm, Kusonoki San obviously got away using 1k.
Now the next step. Our "midpoint" voltage must be 1.8V+swing/2 and thus 1.8V+2V/2V =2.8V.
This means we need to have the output produce a current giving 2.8V across a 910 Ohm resistor for digital silence or 1.15mA output current. So the total current must be 3.07mA of which 1.15mA are supplied by the DAC.
Looking at page 5 of the TDA1543 Datasheet we see the DAC output composed out of a variable current sink (the actual DAC) and a fixed current source (controlled by Rref).
Now Vref is fixed at nominal 2.2V and the "gain" for the reference current drawn out of the Vref pin is nominally 2.
As our DAC sinks 1.15mA and 3.07mA are delivered to our external I/V resistor to set the midpoint we need to make 1.15mA+3.07 = 4.22mA flow through our current source and thus 4.22mA/2 = 2.11mA through the resistor from Vref to ground.
With 2.2V reference Voltage and 2.11mA current the Rref resistor should be 1.04k, 1k NPV.
If we want to maximise the DAC's dynamic range, we can ramp up the Supply Voltage to 8V. According to the Datasheet this fully permissable as typhical operation. The ABSOLUTE MAX supply Voltage rating is 9V.
So lets assume we are like Austin Powers and "like to live dangerous". This means we set +V at 8.6V by using a 7808 and a diode.
Our output Voltage swing can now be 1.8V to 8.6V - 1.2V = 7.4V or 5.6V peak-peak (2V RMS). Our full scale current is still only 2.3mA, so our I/V resistors become 5.6V/2.3mA=2.43k NPV = 2k4.
To get the output to the new midpoint of 1.8V+(5.6V/2) = 4.6V. We will have to have 4.6V/2k4 = 1.92mA flowing in our 2k4 resistor, plus our 1.15mA DAC digital silence current, so 3.07mA. In our reference resistor 3.07mA/2 = 1.535mA need to flow, so 2.2V/1.535mA=1.43k, NPV 1k5.
This will of course totally max out the output voltage range and I would suspect that given the permissable tolerance in series production of the chip you would have to select the chips, maybe 1 out of 10 will make the grade.
Does that clear up any remaning certainties?
Sayonara
PS, Kusonokis first DAC used 4 Chips in Parallel, 9V Supply and 620 Ohm IV, plus 390 Ohm Rref. Scaled to signle chip this would be using NPV E12 Resistors the same values I calculated above and is for the I/V resistor consistent with Stereophiles measurements on the Progression DAC....
Re: another question
Koinichiwa,
Marginal. You may better off in this case with really low dropout, low power, low noise 3-Pin regs. Can I suggest simply switching to 12V SLA's? This will give plenty of voltage headroom to play with and then use LM334 or J-Fet CCS's.
If you absolutely MUST have BG's, use NX-HiQ. The FK are not as good IME as the SH Os-Cons.
I'd say Silver Mica with short leads or COG ceramic SMD. Even better is a nice pulse transformer instead of the capacitors. Make that a 1:2 one so you get more trigger signal and less jitter (the "eye in the "eyepattern" is opened "wider").
BAD IDEA. Return each batteries negative pole to the chip it supplies and bus-ground from there. The analogue Receiver ground links to the digital receiver ground and that links to DAC ground.
I like doing things in SMD, using a cap of a few nf directly across the pins and the R&C in SMD solered to the Pin's forming a V.
No PCB traces on the Filt Pin please and cut of excessive lead-length too, this node is high impedance and a good aerial for any stray crap floating around. Don't give this a chance to be picked up by the PLL and to modulate the recovered clock.
Sayonara
Koinichiwa,
RichardJones said:
Marginal. You may better off in this case with really low dropout, low power, low noise 3-Pin regs. Can I suggest simply switching to 12V SLA's? This will give plenty of voltage headroom to play with and then use LM334 or J-Fet CCS's.
RichardJones said:
If you absolutely MUST have BG's, use NX-HiQ. The FK are not as good IME as the SH Os-Cons.
RichardJones said:
I'd say Silver Mica with short leads or COG ceramic SMD. Even better is a nice pulse transformer instead of the capacitors. Make that a 1:2 one so you get more trigger signal and less jitter (the "eye in the "eyepattern" is opened "wider").
RichardJones said:
BAD IDEA. Return each batteries negative pole to the chip it supplies and bus-ground from there. The analogue Receiver ground links to the digital receiver ground and that links to DAC ground.
RichardJones said:
I like doing things in SMD, using a cap of a few nf directly across the pins and the R&C in SMD solered to the Pin's forming a V.
No PCB traces on the Filt Pin please and cut of excessive lead-length too, this node is high impedance and a good aerial for any stray crap floating around. Don't give this a chance to be picked up by the PLL and to modulate the recovered clock.
Sayonara
JFET CCS?
Do you have a schematic for the JFET CCS?
12V SLA batteries would be more user friendly I guess.
NX-HiQ BG's? I will look into them.
Do you have a recommended place for those 1:2 pulse transformers?
Thankyou!
Do you have a schematic for the JFET CCS?
12V SLA batteries would be more user friendly I guess.
NX-HiQ BG's? I will look into them.
Do you have a recommended place for those 1:2 pulse transformers?
Thankyou!
Re: JFET CCS?
Koinichiwa,
Shortcircuit gate and source and select from a large batch of suitable devices for desired current.
A nearly discharged 6V battery will leave you with under 0.5V for the CCS or resistor in series with the PSU line. At the same time the 7.2V maximum voltage for the batteries fully charged is more than you can apply to the CS receiver directly, without risking damage, so you must regulate somewhere.
Shuntregulators are not very efficient, they just sound very good.
Try:
http://www.scientificonversion.com/digital_audio.html
Sayonara
Koinichiwa,
RichardJones said:
Shortcircuit gate and source and select from a large batch of suitable devices for desired current.
RichardJones said:
A nearly discharged 6V battery will leave you with under 0.5V for the CCS or resistor in series with the PSU line. At the same time the 7.2V maximum voltage for the batteries fully charged is more than you can apply to the CS receiver directly, without risking damage, so you must regulate somewhere.
Shuntregulators are not very efficient, they just sound very good.
RichardJones said:
Try:
http://www.scientificonversion.com/digital_audio.html
Sayonara
KYW: It is very cool you can spend so much time again here on Diyaudio and the Amp discussion board. Way to go ! 🙂
BTW: I just tried a BG-NX 6.3 V 22 uF in a 5V TDA1543 DAC. IMVHO it rocks!!! This weekend I'll do some further experiments, but I am ***VERY*** satisfied with the DAC I've been listening to for the last two hours (and partly also the last two days).
Fedde
BTW: I just tried a BG-NX 6.3 V 22 uF in a 5V TDA1543 DAC. IMVHO it rocks!!! This weekend I'll do some further experiments, but I am ***VERY*** satisfied with the DAC I've been listening to for the last two hours (and partly also the last two days).
Fedde
I also listened to mine today and it improved a lot and it sounds great. I don't think I'll be trying TDA1541
😉
😉
Peter Daniel said:I also listened to mine today and it improved a lot and it sounds great. I don't think I'll be trying TDA1541
It is better though.
I was joking about not trying it. I know it has quite a number of caps aroung the chip. I was thinking about using BG N, what is a recommended value here?
Don't rub it in Jean-Paul 😉
I still can't understand why I like my old rubbed up DAC more than my new one 🙁
After this weekend I'll know more. What I know now is that I can play full volume with this DAC without getting headaches or any other diseases 🙂
With 5V it still have some slam left, some decent controlled slam. The sound I have here reminds me a little of the sound of the original 47 labs gear I heard at Wilco's place in Utrecht (audio-cube, dutch distributor). Very crispy&resonant guitars and slapping basses. Good stereo placing. Addictive and seductive...
And now I will postpone the rest of the message till a point of time that I am more objective and with my feet on the ground. (they are now tapping you know 😉 )
Fedde
I still can't understand why I like my old rubbed up DAC more than my new one 🙁
After this weekend I'll know more. What I know now is that I can play full volume with this DAC without getting headaches or any other diseases 🙂
With 5V it still have some slam left, some decent controlled slam. The sound I have here reminds me a little of the sound of the original 47 labs gear I heard at Wilco's place in Utrecht (audio-cube, dutch distributor). Very crispy&resonant guitars and slapping basses. Good stereo placing. Addictive and seductive...
And now I will postpone the rest of the message till a point of time that I am more objective and with my feet on the ground. (they are now tapping you know 😉 )
Fedde
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