Non Oversampling DAC-complementing CD-PRO

[jean-paul]

Miguel, you can still find CS8412 which is a DIL part and thus easy to work with. CS8414 can be used to if you like SMD.

Marantz CD48 is a very sensitive cdplayer with respect to the PCB tracks. Although I know the player I do not remember if it has I2S but it probably has. Maybe another forum member can help out ? I did solder a Audiocom Superclock II in it's brother CD38 Tjoeb! last week and I decided to never lay hands on one again They do sound fine in standard form but their built quality is plain low. No tweaking with components with this one as PCB tracks peel off when you only look at them !

It certainly does not have TDA1541, if it would have one I would not build a new DAC at all

My advise is to use the SPDIF output indeed.

Hint: Super E configuration is the anti-parallel use of 2 non polar Black Gate caps like N or NX HiQ.

 

[fedde]

Hint: Super E configuration is the anti-parallel use of 2 non polar Black Gate caps like N or NX HiQ.

I knew that, I was a little confused

Why is it called Super E ???

Fedde

 

[Peter Daniel]

Check percyaudio.com site for more info on Super E.

While line filter didn't work with Gainclone it definitely improves the sound of the DAC (it cleans it).

 

[Raj1]

output voltage

Hi Guys,

I've got some 1543's on order, and am toying with the idea of paralleling them. Having heard the results with the 5v I am curious as to what the voltage output would be using 2 chips, more than 1v?

If I mount 2 of the chips conecting the output pins and 12s pins together (leaving power supply pins seperate), what is the required value of resitor required, bearing in mind that the output pins will be connected together?

I may try just one chip first, but I'm a bit dubious about just the 1v output which means driving the preamp harder for voume gain.


Thanks
Raj

 

[Peter Daniel]

Re: output voltage

I may try just one chip first, but I'm a bit dubious about just the 1v output which means driving the preamp harder for voume gain.

Isn't that what preamp is for?

I'm driving my amp directly from DAC and one chip may not be enough gain, although it's not bad. But sounwise it sounds probaly the best. If you decide to parallel, go at least with 4 chips, because using 2 don't give that much more gain and I think screws the sound more than 4 chips in parallel. I'm listening to 4 chips right now, and it't not that bad, but I'm missing sort of the easyness of the sound of one.

 

[miguel2]

jean-paul, do you think this dac connected to the digital output will improve the sound of the marantz cd48? And is it necessary any other circuitry, like a clock or something else?

The transport is a phillips cdm12.1.

Miguel

 

[Raj1]

caps

Hi,

Anyone used 4.7uf film caps instead of the BG's for output coupling? I think film caps would probably be better, although BG's are very close.

Thanks
Raj

 

[Raj1]

Re: Re: output voltage

Isn't that what preamp is for?


I guess you're right in one sense, but I was thinking about the typical output of most sources is 2v, at 1v doesn't that mean double volume for the same gain, and also increased distortion, although it's a class a design and also very good!

Thanks
Raja

 

[Peter Daniel]

It depends how your preamp works, but usually it's a fixed gain and the position of a volume knob is not that important. I like to keep my volume knob at 3 o'clock position.

 

[jean-paul]

jean-paul, do you think this dac connected to the digital output will improve the sound of the marantz cd48? And is it necessary any other circuitry, like a clock or something else?

I think it will Miguel. Your cdplayer will benefit very much from a low jitter clock but as I said before: the risk of failure with CD48 is high. Use solder wick/braid for desoldering the old crystal. I recommend Superclock II or Guido Tent's XO clock in this case because there is not that much space for placing it. It needs to be small. Best place is left of the mechanics mounted vertically on the bracket of CDM 12.1. That way you will have the shortest wires to the PCB.

Anyone used 4.7uf film caps instead of the BG's for output coupling? I think film caps would probably be better, although BG's are very close.

Tried that, Raj. The BG's won. BG's are better than film caps otherwise most of us would have used film caps I used MKT, MKC and MKP caps before but BG N's are clearly of another league. BG NX HiQ are even better but not available in the right values/working voltages for this purpose.

 

[Raj1]

BG's

Hi Jean-Paul,

Well I havn't heard the bg bipolars yet, but I always thought that film caps were the best and always superceded electo's although some of the electro's have been know to come very close in tterms of the infamous word - distortion. I guess you've done more subjective listening than me Jean-Paul. I have used bg FK's in my pre as a replacement for oscon's and I did notice a difference although, the question is was it better or just different, I couldn't a/b to convince myself completley?

I did however notice that when I bypassed the FK's with a 4.7uf film cap the sound was immediatley - 'more open'.

Did you find the bg's nonpolars to outperform the film caps 'accross the board' so to speak? Would like to hear your opinion on this as I was convinced the black gate's are superior to other electro's but always thought they came close but not bettering good quality film caps.

Incidentally I have a bunch of russian teflon caps which are 500v 0.1uf, they are however very big, but sooner or later I hope to find a use for them other than the dustbin! Any suggestions?


Thanks
Raj

 

[Peter Daniel]

I'll soon will compare them to Hovlands and MIT RTXs at the DACs output, so you will know what's better.

I had a listening session today comparing 3 DACs. The transport was the latest Shanling SACD player modified by Partsconnexion.
This Shanling as a stand alone player is very good. We tried the TDA1543 single chip DAC and it was good too. Not that much extention and air as Shanling, but tonality, soundstage and musicality was there. Now, this DAC was not tweaked yet, and with proper attention to detail, reclocking, better supply, I think it might be further improved.

We also tried 4 chips in parallel with 8V supply DAC and it was no good Also, the non oversampling TDA1543 sounded better than my Broadhurst based DAC, and I don't really know why For some reason, soundstage didn't open on my oversampling DAC, I have to check why.

Single resistor output stage works really well and we tried to use output transformers (Lundahl) at the output, but it degraded the sound. Also, a line filter improves sonics substantially.

 

[jean-paul]

Hi Raj, FK's are not to be compared with N or NX HiQ. In the case of FK I guess film caps are better. It's the non-polar BG's that are the winners IMO. They are better than most film caps. I haven't compared them to boutique film caps but of what I compared them with till now BG NX HiQ always were better.

The BG nonpolars do not outperform the film caps 'accross the board' but need some time as we know. The first days they sometimes are better and sometimes they are worse. That's why I leave them on a low voltage for some weeks before I solder them in. If done like that they immediately offer an improvement.

We also tried 4 chips in parallel with 8V supply DAC and it was no good

 

[fedde]

This evening I had a listening session at Nielsio's place. We compared my Nonoz II DAC (8V supply) to the internal Behringer 8024 Ultracurve DAC (unmodded). The Nonoz II clearly won

Better dynamics, smoother mids and a more relaxing sound. And more important, the music got more interesting...

The overall sound quality of the complete system was quite ok. Niels uses a 'unity- gain' gainclone with Jordan JX92 drivers in an open baffle with 12" supravox woofers.

Fedde

 

[miguel2]

If I understood well, this Nonoz II dac can be connected to the digital output of the marantz cd48 and without any further modifications it will be a significant improvement.

Then, the next step would be to reclock the cdp with a new clock. For this I would have to remove the transport, right?

Miguel

 

[jean-paul]

Right. You can connect Kusonoki/Nonodac/NonozII/Scott Nixon's DACkit to your cdplayer and it will give a significant improvement.
But other mods in the transport will be beneficial as well. If this is your first CDP mod I would skip internal mods with CD48.

 

[fedde]

If I understood well, this Nonoz II dac can be connected to the digital output of the marantz cd48 and without any further modifications it will be a significant improvement.

That is possible, but if the player has I2S it is cheaper and better to build the TDA1543 DAC in without receiver. You only need a DAC chip with five resistors, two coupling caps and some supply parts then !!!

I wouldn't worry too much about tracks gettings loose. You can always replace tracks by wires. It gets less nice this way, but at least it works!

Then, the next step would be to reclock the cdp with a new clock. For this I would have to remove the transport, right?
Miguel

What transport do you mean !?

Fedde

 

[jean-paul]

Fedde has obviously not worked on a CD38/48. It is hard to repair with wires as they become loose too when heat is applied. Of all cdp's I worked on this is one with the highest risk factors.

My concern is that you'll end up with a non working cdplayer. But maybe you are experienced and my worries are not justified...

 

[fedde]

Fedde has obviously not worked on a CD38/48. It is hard to repair with wires as they become loose too when heat is applied. Of all cdp's I worked on this is one with the highest risk factors.

My concern is that you'll end up with a non working cdplayer. But maybe you are experienced and my worries are not justified...

No, I have not worked with that player. I know the problem with lifted tracks. Why get wires loose too ? Is it not possible to glue the wire to the pcb with a few drops of glue?

Anyway, to build the DAC into the CDP will not be too difficult. Only three I2s wires has to be soldered from the input of the digital filter and also the supply/ground wires. These wires can be soldered to pins of IC's or connectors and will be secure.

Fedde

 

[miguel2]

I have no experience at all with cdp mods. So I guess I just use the digital output to feed the dac. I will implement it inside the player and I am thinking of using the 12V supply of the cdp to feed the dac psu. The question of I2S is interesting and I will try to find out if this is possible.

Miguel