Non Oversampling DAC-complementing CD-PRO

[Raj1]

5v dac and spdif/12 s

Hi Guys,

Has anyone actually comapred 12s 1543 connection to spdif connection via reciever chip? I know it could be better in theory, but no-one has actually posted aconclusive finding yet! Peter and Fedde have yo both used the same value resitors in the 5v setup? I will try the same also, but will probably use vishay bulk foils.

Thanks
Raja

 

[jean-paul]

Raj, Elso has posted his results a while ago. I concur with him that the DAC sounds better without receiver/SPDIF. It would have been a real surprise if it had been the other way around anyway

I still can't understand why I like my old rubbed up DAC more than my new one

Fedde, you posted the opposite here and on your website when you built your new one

Just change the new one's supply to 5V ( and the I/V and Iref resistors ) and compare it then, otherwise it is comparing apples with pears. I am pretty sure that the new one is a winner when power supply and components are equal to the other one. Nothing beats a tidy layout, whether it be with hardwiring or with a PCB. I never experienced the fatiguing "headache" effect you describe with either DAC that I built with TDA1543.

http://home.student.utwente.nl/f.s.bouwman/audio/nonoz2.html

 

[RichJones]

Re-clocking?

So, how do I incorporate a reclocking circuit between the receiver and the DAC???

Also, If I had an I2S input, Do I even need the Receiver chip?

This is for the CS8412 and TDA1543 combo...

Thanks!!!

 

[Elso Kwak]

Asynchronous Reclocking

Hi Richjones,
Have a look here:
http://home.student.utwente.nl/f.s.bouwman/audio/nonoz.html

Schematic here:
http://home.student.utwente.nl/f.s.bouwman/audio/images/nonoz-schematic.gif
Philps I2S can be connected directly to the TDA1543 or Asynchronous Reclocker, omitting the CS8412.

 

[rickpt]

can you read mr quaq?

"Bypass caps work in digital, in analog they don’t! that’s my view."

 

[Peter Daniel]

Re: can you read mr quaq?

"Bypass caps work in digital, in analog they don’t! that’s my view."

They definitely make difference in sound. If you like it or not is another matter.

 

[rickpt]

Yes, because the performance of the power supply will change...measurements are great because they let you see if its better or worse performance wise...

Best Regards

 

[Guido Tent]

Re: can you read mr quaq?

"Bypass caps work in digital, in analog they don’t! that’s my view."

Hi

Signal wise, there is no difference between analog and digital, the latter is often higher bandwidth.

The impact on the circuit, and the effect on the sound may differ.

Proper decoupling is always important !

regards

 

[rickpt]

Signal wise, there is no difference between analog and digital, the latter is often higher bandwidth.

Agree with you but in my view both signal require different approaches on decoupling...

Regards

 

[RichardJones]

samples?

I am looking for a place to get samples for:

CS8412
TDA1543
74VHC74
TL431

Any ideas? Or places where they are relatively cheap?

Thanks!

 

[Peter Daniel]

Info on first two is here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14898

The last two can be obtained cheaply from Digi-Key.

I don't think you can get samples of CS8412 anymore as they stopped making them (AFAIK). Replacement is CS8414 (SMD), and you can try Future or Cirrus for samples.

 

[HeadSh0T]

CS8412 is out of production and it's now replaced with CS8414 which is in an SOIC package. CS8412 is DIP-28 and is kind of hard to find. CS8414 can be obtained as samples at cirrus.com but they might not call you back..

TDA1543- can't get samples but can be obtained cheaply from places like newark.com

74vhc74 - try:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/74/74VHC74.html

tl431 - try:
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/productfolder.jhtml?genericPartNumber=TL431

but these are so cheap you can just get them from any electronics store. LM431 is practically the same. I can get TL or LM 431 for less than 75 cent Canadian $.

 

[Peter Daniel]

Re: BG's

Hi Jean-Paul,

Well I havn't heard the bg bipolars yet, but I always thought that film caps were the best and always superceded electo's although some of the electro's have been know to come very close in tterms of the infamous word - distortion. I guess you've done more subjective listening than me Jean-Paul. I have used bg FK's in my pre as a replacement for oscon's and I did notice a difference although, the question is was it better or just different, I couldn't a/b to convince myself completley?

I did however notice that when I bypassed the FK's with a 4.7uf film cap the sound was immediatley - 'more open'.

Did you find the bg's nonpolars to outperform the film caps 'accross the board' so to speak? Would like to hear your opinion on this as I was convinced the black gate's are superior to other electro's but always thought they came close but not bettering good quality film caps.

I compared yesterday BG N 4.7V as coupling caps with Hovlands (4U) Siemens MKV (6.8u) and Wondercaps (10u). I think that BG sounded the best and that's what I left in the DAC for now.

It wasn't very accurate test yet, just short impressions of listening to ea. cap, but I think that BG were most detailed and provided the tonal balance I preferred. The other caps seemed to be somewhat slower or laid back or smeared at highs or simply not right.

I was using Vishays S102 for 1K resistors and this may have influence here as well, for capacitor prefference. But considering the size and price of those BG caps, they must be regarded as great value in coupling applications.

 

[grataku]

Peter, that kind of makes me think about changing the coupling caps of my X-bosoz to nonpolar BG. If nothing else, that would definitely slim down the size of the whole setup at the moment that is governed by the 12uF 400V pp caps I am using.
The only potential problem I can see is the voltage rating.

 

[Peter Daniel]

The caps I'm using are 50V and they also have 10u/50V at $6.5 from Percyaudio.

Because I didn't do detailed comparisons, and I didn't compare cap vs no cap setup, I cannot say that those BG are neutral or the best solution, but from what I've heard so far they are pretty good sounding and definitely worth consideration. They work really well at the output of my DAC and in the gainclones. Some people complain that they are too hi-fi sounding, but I can't complain. Again, for the size and price, nothing beats them, I guess

 

[Peter Daniel]

I guess I was too fast raving about BG. When compared to really good film caps they still lack refinment and detail and easyness of presentation. Here, I'm using 3u MIT RTX caps paralleled with 0.022 silver foil caps and they are much better than BG (but the BG are not broken in, MITs are). But look at the size and price (10x more?).

Siemens MKV seemed to sound a bit lean and Hovlands too aggressive in highs and not smooth enough. When comparing BG to the pictured combination, they have nice highs at first listen, but then, when analysing more, they lack in detail, the midrange isn't natural sounding and bass is kind of bloated, also the overall sound is kinda slower.

But I will still be using BG, where size and price is an issue. They supposedly improve much after breaking in, so my comments might not be accurate.

 

[grataku]

Some people complain that they are too hi-fi sounding

I wonder what that is...they sound too "hi-end"?

Voltage-wise, at least on the bosoz, there are quite a few DC volts on the output before the caps. That's why I am sure about the rating.

 

[Peter Daniel]

And here's my all out attempt at the SOTA of TDA1543 DAC. I'm using 3 transformers (receiver, dac and clock with logic). The filtering employs chokes and series resistors and is separate for digital and analog section of CS8412. No 3 pin regulators, TL431 for receiver (dig and analog sep), and Elso's regulator for DAC. The reclocking circuit is also based on schematic from Elso and is using 100Mhz crystal and all 3 signals reclocked.

PS is 5V and I'm using Vishay S102 1k resistors for I/V conversion. This DAC sounds way better than my previous one, simple implementation of TDA1543. The reclocking brought much improvement, adding more depth and resolution. I still have to remove DAC chip from a socket and mount it directly, and add more bypass caps, but I'm very pleased with that DAC.

I like very much working with plywood as a base now, and the days of aluminum might be coming to an end

PS. When using Elso's reclocking circuit, don't forget to connect ground and Vcc. I forgot yesterday and wasted half day figuring out what was wrong

 

[Peter Daniel]

I wonder what that is...they sound too "hi-end"?

I said too "hi-fi" and I think it means simple exaggeration of some frequencies to achieve certain effect, without the usual refinments that "hi-end" presents

What I like about BG is that add a sort of depth (especially in lower midrange) that some other caps, although nice sounding, don't present.

 

[Raj1]

film caps

Hi,

Well I think I'll try the trusted 4.7uf monacor film caps at the output, I already have this make of caps at work in my pre and power amps, and I think they sound pretty good. These are rectangular in shape and cost around £4.50 a piece in the UK, so are not much more expensive than the equivalent black gates, and they're not very big either. I'm toying with the idea of using the nx-hiq's in super e formation for the decoupling etc. I wonder if the massive 0.1uf 500v teflons would be of use anywhere..........?


Thanks
Raja