By the way, informations on the tents site seem to be old :
Impossible to understand what to do with the bare PCB ! No part list, No idea of final cost...
- For pcm63 ? K grade ? Any new old stock ? PCM1704 ?
On the shelf, it is clearer : BREANDNEW pcm1792 in current mode with I/V with a classic LM4562 OPA and a final buffer with the same again ! Photographs show VCXO on a plastic dip 12 socket... I agree the set up should be very good to have the best sound with that... simple electrolytic caps for bypass just before the RCAs' ? Not sure it can compete with a DC-777 (DP-777 is an another animal). But we have to listen to it before judge it, sure ! Look at insidfe a Ayre Dac... look simple with few smd, but most of time sound is good !
I'm sure it's a good DAC, but some here still continue with new idea : fast video OPA e.g.
I you are more or less close to Mr G Tent from Tents lab, you would be a friend to say him to clean its site for its own interest ! With all due of respect ! It looks like a phantom site. I know the good reputation of G Tent but for people who don't know him...
Finally I'm agree Alexiss, You have always to hear, test and verify what is wrote before deeping in the sea... also when water seems pristine, soft and blue ! The more you have money in the pocket sometimes thje worse to swimm (but you designa smart boat !) It's a chance but the last letters of your avatar is I2S ! Fun. I'm sure you know many lane about the TD1541. Advises would be always welcome...
Is it not possible with the smart people here to do better than the crapy Kits wich are bad copy of non understood ideas... often merely taken from this site?
Good luck Joshua for the project management of your movie... we loose an opportunity. Hope you come back to help us lately and give us a liitle of your time.
Impossible to understand what to do with the bare PCB ! No part list, No idea of final cost...
- For pcm63 ? K grade ? Any new old stock ? PCM1704 ?
On the shelf, it is clearer : BREANDNEW pcm1792 in current mode with I/V with a classic LM4562 OPA and a final buffer with the same again ! Photographs show VCXO on a plastic dip 12 socket... I agree the set up should be very good to have the best sound with that... simple electrolytic caps for bypass just before the RCAs' ? Not sure it can compete with a DC-777 (DP-777 is an another animal). But we have to listen to it before judge it, sure ! Look at insidfe a Ayre Dac... look simple with few smd, but most of time sound is good !
I'm sure it's a good DAC, but some here still continue with new idea : fast video OPA e.g.
I you are more or less close to Mr G Tent from Tents lab, you would be a friend to say him to clean its site for its own interest ! With all due of respect ! It looks like a phantom site. I know the good reputation of G Tent but for people who don't know him...
Finally I'm agree Alexiss, You have always to hear, test and verify what is wrote before deeping in the sea... also when water seems pristine, soft and blue ! The more you have money in the pocket sometimes thje worse to swimm (but you designa smart boat !) It's a chance but the last letters of your avatar is I2S ! Fun. I'm sure you know many lane about the TD1541. Advises would be always welcome...
Is it not possible with the smart people here to do better than the crapy Kits wich are bad copy of non understood ideas... often merely taken from this site?
Good luck Joshua for the project management of your movie... we loose an opportunity. Hope you come back to help us lately and give us a liitle of your time.
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Please please please please READ the circuit description! + study the schematics.
Study, think, analyze, think more, use pen and paper, study study study the schematics.
DO NOT JUMP INTO HASTY CONCLUSIONS!
thank u. it was funny.
As I stated earlier, I am most definitely no expert. I am just like anyone else.
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Study, think, analyze, think more, use pen and paper, study study study the schematics.
No shematic, small pictures, need to be an expert to understand here, how study a 4 layers shematics ! Think more : no never
; study : yes i can !DO NOT JUMP INTO HASTY CONCLUSIONS! : No conclusion, just looks like a phantom site,that's all maybe it isn't ! Anp impossible to understand what to do with the kits for what price ! I just understood the last brand new on shelf seems cheaper than a complete old kit !
in relation to me i can tell you you're an expert !
Dear Eldam
Everything is provided on the site:
overview,
theory,
digital issues,
analog issues,
PSU,
schematics
- Design description
- Schematics of digital section
- Schematics of analog section
- large pics and pdf files of everything
- list of cmponents
- etc
I fail to understand...what is the problem here?
Technical Overview
what else is needed to build a DAC?
Thank you for your kind words, believe me, I am not.
believe me, e.g. for my old mother I am an expert of computers... we know all people who knows more in a domain... that the word of nowadays for "expert". The old sense of "expert" is nowadays : "genius" and so on...
Thanks because I never saw this internet page before (your link : Technical Overview)
I saw this one ! : TentLabs
Maybe there is a link inside to the page you gave ? I miss it if exists !
Miam... something to read is almost something to solder... and sometimes somrthing to listen !
it could be a baseline
Thanks because I never saw this internet page before (your link : Technical Overview)
I saw this one ! : TentLabs
Maybe there is a link inside to the page you gave ? I miss it if exists !
Miam... something to read is almost something to solder... and sometimes somrthing to listen !
it could be a baseline
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A master clock for an Amareno on a pcb (above the main which old the DAC ?
A master clock for a rasberryPi or squeezebox (I2S but the clock because the Masterclock !)
Which type of crystal do you use ? Fixed or not ? easy to find for everybody
It's a work in progress, not yet finished.
I'm experimenting with a custom crystal (got from the Canadian Laptech): cold welded HC/43U AT crystal, fundamental at 11.2896MHz.
But the goal, as i said above, I believe is to implement the MCLK close to the DAC and then send it back to the source.
I'm experimenting with a custom crystal (got from the Canadian Laptech): cold welded HC/43U AT crystal, fundamental at 11.2896MHz.
But the goal, as i said above, I believe is to implement the MCLK close to the DAC and then send it back to the source.
Dear Eldam:
I assembled this dac 10 years ago and I have had the chance to compare it to many other DACs.
I have spent a small fortune (yes, I unfortunately did) on ebay DACs and wasted many years of my life to find a path to Audio Nirvana.
I did not want to engage in this discussion, but after a couple of years of following this thread, I felt that I could try to help Mr. Joshua_G.
The only reason for my referral to Tentlabs DAC was purely on a technical and implementational basis (& sonics of course), as I have been forced to learn the hard (and VERY expensive) way what Tentlabs is offering in their DAC solution very cheap.
According to my humble opinion, everything is done right in this design.
There is room for improvement, by not by much!
I certainly hope that my somewhat perfectionistical approach to dacs has not offended anyone.
It is not my intention to dismiss any design as they are all trying to make the best DACs they can, and that is how we learn.
I am merely stating that they do not need to start at 0, they can start at +1000.
Tent labs is a Master's example of proper layout execution. A lot can be learned by looking at, and analyzing their design and their final implementation.
Many fellow audiophiles ask me:
- but How can you say that?
- It is an ancient design collecting dust,
- it is useless, it is stupid
- it uses bloody through-hole parts,
- we don't see what you are saying.
My answer is:
- take your Master's in Electronics Engineering
- start spending several 100.000 USD on:
- components,
- testing equipment,
- developement tools ,
- books,
- prototyping,
- dedicated research and then...
... slowly, you will see.
Please do not make hasty conclusions.
Use this incredible wealth of information kindly prvided by Tent labs on their site to learn, improve and create your own designs.
I would very much like to be Mr Tents friend, unfortunately i am not.
I assembled this dac 10 years ago and I have had the chance to compare it to many other DACs.
I have spent a small fortune (yes, I unfortunately did) on ebay DACs and wasted many years of my life to find a path to Audio Nirvana.
I did not want to engage in this discussion, but after a couple of years of following this thread, I felt that I could try to help Mr. Joshua_G.
The only reason for my referral to Tentlabs DAC was purely on a technical and implementational basis (& sonics of course), as I have been forced to learn the hard (and VERY expensive) way what Tentlabs is offering in their DAC solution very cheap.
According to my humble opinion, everything is done right in this design.
There is room for improvement, by not by much!
I certainly hope that my somewhat perfectionistical approach to dacs has not offended anyone.
It is not my intention to dismiss any design as they are all trying to make the best DACs they can, and that is how we learn.
I am merely stating that they do not need to start at 0, they can start at +1000.
Tent labs is a Master's example of proper layout execution. A lot can be learned by looking at, and analyzing their design and their final implementation.
Many fellow audiophiles ask me:
- but How can you say that?
- It is an ancient design collecting dust,
- it is useless, it is stupid
- it uses bloody through-hole parts,
- we don't see what you are saying.
My answer is:
- take your Master's in Electronics Engineering
- start spending several 100.000 USD on:
- components,
- testing equipment,
- developement tools ,
- books,
- prototyping,
- dedicated research and then...
... slowly, you will see.
Please do not make hasty conclusions.
Use this incredible wealth of information kindly prvided by Tent labs on their site to learn, improve and create your own designs.
I would very much like to be Mr Tents friend, unfortunately i am not.
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All I have to say is I agree with you from the beginning. I 'am the first elswhere to say it's not bad to have a reference to listen or your are just in the belief than your dac is good enough.
Too many people bought, me the first, crap kit and loose their time but to learn... which is always too expensive... I agree once more. But sometimes good surprise like a little smart KIT like the Subbu or the Unixdeveloper one is sympathetic surprise. Ok here the chip flow directly with V and without DC caps and are supposed to be jitter proof. It seems easier wit such a dac chip, but the rest is well thinked and a good sound in relation to the "small" quantities of devices around is to be said: a good design, no ? It sounds !
If a mini project with the good fellows here is impossible, what will be the best given parts around TDA 1541 to do fast and cheaper as possible to the hope to have a second class DAC (for a second system e.g.) ?
I remember T Loesch offered not its last tubes design but a good old one ?
Peufeu fellow had a site with subminiatures DAcs
I saw russian fellow who maid a DAC with a pcb around AD844...
If not a complete project a little lego... You always think we want to do equal or better.... that was never my project as I'm not so naive but sometimes at least in the belief by lake of information. I know addings module is always bad, but look lilke there are some SPIDF module to fight the jitter which make the buzz here !
You, over people with DIY TDA1541 : are you happy with it, did you compare it with good ones... ? Did you find there is a large margin for the sound ? for the price ? Will you beginn again with such project ?
Alexis² I already know your answer
Too many people bought, me the first, crap kit and loose their time but to learn... which is always too expensive... I agree once more. But sometimes good surprise like a little smart KIT like the Subbu or the Unixdeveloper one is sympathetic surprise. Ok here the chip flow directly with V and without DC caps and are supposed to be jitter proof. It seems easier wit such a dac chip, but the rest is well thinked and a good sound in relation to the "small" quantities of devices around is to be said: a good design, no ? It sounds !
If a mini project with the good fellows here is impossible, what will be the best given parts around TDA 1541 to do fast and cheaper as possible to the hope to have a second class DAC (for a second system e.g.) ?
I remember T Loesch offered not its last tubes design but a good old one ?
Peufeu fellow had a site with subminiatures DAcs
I saw russian fellow who maid a DAC with a pcb around AD844...
If not a complete project a little lego... You always think we want to do equal or better.... that was never my project as I'm not so naive but sometimes at least in the belief by lake of information. I know addings module is always bad, but look lilke there are some SPIDF module to fight the jitter which make the buzz here !
You, over people with DIY TDA1541 : are you happy with it, did you compare it with good ones... ? Did you find there is a large margin for the sound ? for the price ? Will you beginn again with such project ?
Alexis² I already know your answer
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Dear Eldam;
I apologize for my somewhat perfectionistic view on DACs.
ofcourse there are many TDA1541 DACs and kits that can sound good, but getting the outmost performance from these kits require massive modifications, and at the end, the layout issues become painfully obvious and prohibitive.
I am sorry, I am not sure what you mean here.
I apologize for my somewhat perfectionistic view on DACs.
ofcourse there are many TDA1541 DACs and kits that can sound good, but getting the outmost performance from these kits require massive modifications, and at the end, the layout issues become painfully obvious and prohibitive.
I am sorry, I am not sure what you mean here.
Thank you for your wishes.
No, no opportunity is lost. I explained it above.
Why do you insist on TDA 1541 DAC Kit?
What are you after? (Affordable audio nirvana, or what)?
Ah, now I see what you mean. I am not sure if I am the most qualified here but here we go:
- Start with a simple TDA1541a kit.
- use IIS attenuators, but without the LPF caps.
- if you have TDA1541a, not TDA1541, ground pin 4 to AGND.
- Use ceramic caps on all DEM capacitors
- use simple 7812, 7912 pre-regulators for +5v, -5v,
- use simple gyrators with bipolar transistors, after the pre-regulators, for +5v, -5v, and place them very close to the DAC power pins
- pay attention to -15v supply
- feed these outputs to power pins and use LARGE oscons very close to the DAC chip
- if you have the energy, go for dem-reclocking (not very easy)
- use passive IV.
- go no-oversampling
- use Mr. Loesch nos compenstaion circuit.
- avoid complex op-based, or multiple-transistor output stages.
- use a simple tube output stage (Audio Note Design or Mr. Fikus' design)
By now you would have a DAC kit, transformed and enabled, to challange many 32bit 352kHz ebay DACs out there, but it is nothing compared to CD-777, or Tentdac for that matter.
TDA15xx is a VERY challenging DA chip to work with for maximum performance, but with relatively simple means and mods, you can get satisfactory results.
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This is so on the good cases, when the person's listening discerning ability wasn't plugged by the engineering schools notions that the accepted conventional measurements results are absolutely faithful representation of the sound quality.
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