This is the reality.
The cost of AMR CD-77 is appr 8000 GBP.
It is NOTHING considering what you get.
Developing something similar would take a very competent team
of experts 4-6 years of intensive R&D.
How much do you think this would cost? 250 USD?
Failing to realize this is highly illogical and fruitless, as you quickly loose time
and money trying to 'catch up' to the High End Products.
Read the chronicals of Mr. John Brown here and see what he has gone through
for the past 9 years.
Ask him (just for curiosity) how much money he has spent.
Why not kick back in your favorite chair and enjoy your favorite music, beautifully
rendered by your High End sound system, that some engineer has spent a lifetime and a fortune developing.
Of course There are people who enjoy the process of getting there, and this does not apply to them.
I have had the pleasure of hearing both of them and I agree.
CD-777 is a very serious piece of Audio equipment.
Before bombarding me with insulting comments, no I don't know Mr. Loesch or any of the AMR staff.
I have not personally heard the new Tentdac, but I have heard from
many, whose ears I trust, what you described above.
My Tentdac was very heavily modified.
Suffice it to say that the sonics it produces (pcm63k based) has made me loose
interest in R&D on TDA15xx based DAC designs (I own many of them, and many many others for that matter)
Please do not interpret these comments as discouraging.
Read other people's experiences, then make your own intellectual decisions.
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I have reasons to believe it is not that far off the sonic performance of CD-77.
Maybe Mr. Loesch can shed some light on this issue.
Hi Alexiss,
1. Mr. Thorsten Loesch isn't corresponding anymore on the forums here.
2. I wouldn't ask a father which child he loves more…
Hi Mr. Joshua_G
Thanks for the update, what a shame that he is not available any more.
If I were to make a rough numerical estimate, I would say CD-777 performs
up to 95% of the sonics of CD-77.
Unless some deliberate efforts have been made to intentionally deteriorate
the performance of CD-777.
I know of many Mid End companies that do this.
However, I firmly believe (looking at the company portoflio) AMR does not proceed in this fashion.
Thanks for the update, what a shame that he is not available any more.
If I were to make a rough numerical estimate, I would say CD-777 performs
up to 95% of the sonics of CD-77.
Unless some deliberate efforts have been made to intentionally deteriorate
the performance of CD-777.
I know of many Mid End companies that do this.
However, I firmly believe (looking at the company portoflio) AMR does not proceed in this fashion.
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wowwwww
! Ok, I try not to answer to personal attacks 
or paranoid attitudes but if second degrees ,but here its the second not gentle direct attacks to me! First, all your attitude and acusations translate one and only thing : what you have in fact yourself in mind for the others !
Why such agressivity ?
Why are you always talking of money ? Somebody asked you money here ? Why have you time for personal questions and not for adding to the common process ! Always in peaking mode ? always behind the movie camera, not in front of it ?.... You see as its easy to make personal attacks, did I offense you before? But let me allow to defend myself this time of bad attitude you lend me !Please take your time read again carrefully what all I wrote above. Your the OP, You are involved, you are motivated... I hoped so with the best position to continue the debat for a more beamed result around a gentle, FREE, project with the positive attitude of fellows here.
Ok, i understood, no woerth to repeat yourself, a simple "no" is enough, your motivation are yours and I don't care about your personal time and activities. I don't need excuses with others in my own life. See all theose people around you sharing... giving their time, sharing their hobby, trying to help others !
I hoped just the best contributors each in their own domain could give what they have an most of them spend time to research not just peak up, just ask and insult like you do with me ! Don't waste time to explain to me the real reason of your personal agenda... your right you don'y owe me but MAYBE respect as i tyed to help you.
I hope you the best and really hope you will find peace if not with the others, or me at last resort with yourself. Hope you will find a richness, if not with money, with ethic.
Respectfully yours
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wowwwww
First, all your attitude and acusations translate one and only thing : what you have in fact yourself in mind for the others !
Why such agressivity ?
Please take your time read again carrefully what all I wrote above. Your the OP, You are involved, you are motivated... I hoped so with the best position to continue the debat for a more beamed result around a gentle, FREE, project with the positive attitude of fellows here.
Ok, i understood, no woerth to repeat yourself, a simple "no" is enough, your motivation are yours and I don't care about your personal time and activities. I don't need excuses with others in my own life. See all theose people around you sharing... giving their time, sharing their hobby, trying to help others !
I hoped just the best contributors each in their own domain could give what they have an most of them spend time to research not just peak up, just ask and insult like you do with me ! Don't waste time to explain to me the real reason of your personal agenda... your right you don'y owe me but trespect.
I hope you the best and really hope you will find peace if not with the others, or me at last resort with yourself.
Respectfully yours
That you take me for a fool only expose yourself.
Being a long-time (and very critical at times) follower of Mr. Loesch's efforts, I think you would be 100% right.
Ok folks, Let renew with positive attitudes,
What do we have here :
- Smart people, some very auto-centred (easy, easy guys, not an attack)
- People who like to contribute not only for a question to do better than pros (are we naives ? )
- some semi-pros
- all lovers of musics
- some people with problem of time or money.
- few dreamers, (because their are not to old with DIY) whom think a chineese kit could be as good as a first class branded device.
What do I think, personnaly, I, auto centred but not paranoid :
- I'm very involved by the process as i'm totaly a fool with technics
- I like to share and to learn like most of us.
- I'm also interested by the result (idea of a usefull reference device)
- time is time we are all gonna diy !
- My money is too poor but playing with little good kits.
My initial idea was to share the time and the knowledge around a great but limited in time with the goodwell attitudes of most of us. With a GB when a need of money for test is needed (read again not want to do better than AMR at the own risk of a unique people ) : something between designing a project for a "good enough" quality between the crap kits or not good enough in relation to the Audio Nirvana (I don't like the words because it is a brand also)
1) because in many threads good ideas exist, some parts of design already exist. Some daughter boards can sometimes help with cost reduction (maybe here I'm too naive because a question of final efficienty with the design?)
2) problems solve themselves when people talk and share
3) This is a coolaborative place for fanatics (of audio I mean)
I think there are maybe a possibility to split the needs of people in two solutions :
A)
- fellows begann to share again : they like the process if the initial idea to try better
- Experienced fellows seem to discuss technic and design (I don't know if it is a try for a common design in each domain : input, output, layout,... the utility of a project manager... or not maybe who knows !)
B) A group buy for reducing cost acquisition of real device ? AMR or else :
Here we need if people are interested to have a list, a purchasing director or two, a common tool open for the people of the list but secret for the rest of the world not to allow the final reduced price in regards to the number of selled devices ! Brands are maybe interested by :
1) sell 100, 200 devices, full up their order books : it is a win win attitude.
2) need a little secret, brands don't want such attitude to be known and reduce the price of a standalone buyer.
3) need guaranties
But people involved need guaranties, pristine about final price and negociations : final result will be disteributed in one shoot to them with the final agrrement of the brand in the same time to close the price and not people beneficit of more reduced price...
Any purchasing director (no you are not a fool for 100 devices , less or more ?
As the life is beautifull, we can also be in group A and B
Maybe am I too naive and people too smart... but I participate and make a proposal !
Eldam !: + 1 for an AMR DV-777 (the DAC)
What do we have here :
- Smart people, some very auto-centred
(easy, easy guys, not an attack)- People who like to contribute not only for a question to do better than pros (are we naives ? )
- some semi-pros
- all lovers of musics
- some people with problem of time or money.
- few dreamers, (because their are not to old with DIY) whom think a chineese kit could be as good as a first class branded device.
What do I think, personnaly, I, auto centred but not paranoid :
- I'm very involved by the process as i'm totaly a fool with technics
- I like to share and to learn like most of us.
- I'm also interested by the result (idea of a usefull reference device)
- time is time we are all gonna diy !
- My money is too poor but playing with little good kits.
My initial idea was to share the time and the knowledge around a great but limited in time with the goodwell attitudes of most of us. With a GB when a need of money for test is needed (read again not want to do better than AMR at the own risk of a unique people
) : something between designing a project for a "good enough" quality between the crap kits or not good enough in relation to the Audio Nirvana (I don't like the words because it is a brand also)1) because in many threads good ideas exist, some parts of design already exist. Some daughter boards can sometimes help with cost reduction (maybe here I'm too naive because a question of final efficienty with the design?)
2) problems solve themselves when people talk and share
3) This is a coolaborative place for fanatics (of audio I mean)
I think there are maybe a possibility to split the needs of people in two solutions :
A)
- fellows begann to share again : they like the process if the initial idea to try better
- Experienced fellows seem to discuss technic and design (I don't know if it is a try for a common design in each domain : input, output, layout,... the utility of a project manager... or not maybe who knows !)
B) A group buy for reducing cost acquisition of real device ? AMR or else :
Here we need if people are interested to have a list, a purchasing director or two, a common tool open for the people of the list but secret for the rest of the world not to allow the final reduced price in regards to the number of selled devices ! Brands are maybe interested by :
1) sell 100, 200 devices, full up their order books : it is a win win attitude.
2) need a little secret, brands don't want such attitude to be known and reduce the price of a standalone buyer.
3) need guaranties
But people involved need guaranties, pristine about final price and negociations : final result will be disteributed in one shoot to them with the final agrrement of the brand in the same time to close the price and not people beneficit of more reduced price...
Any purchasing director (no you are not a fool
for 100 devices , less or more ?As the life is beautifull, we can also be in group A and B
Maybe am I too naive and people too smart... but I participate and make a proposal !
Eldam !: + 1 for an AMR DV-777 (the DAC)
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It seemed to me at the time the model 777 came out that Thorsten was using a DAC which had technical specs similar (or identical) to the TDA1545. If such a humble chip really does deliver 95% of the SQ of the much more complex TDA1541A then it has to be a chip worth spending time with, no? In my own DAC designs based on this chip, I have recently found I've been limiting its performance by giving it a less than clean PSU so I doubt I've reached the fundamental limits of the TDA1545 yet.
One advantage it has over the TDA1541A from a DIYer's pov is it runs on a single power rail (3-5V). This makes getting good layout an order of magnitude easier. It also needs no fancy tricks with DEM.
One advantage it has over the TDA1541A from a DIYer's pov is it runs on a single power rail (3-5V). This makes getting good layout an order of magnitude easier. It also needs no fancy tricks with DEM.
He's commented before that there is indeed a large subjective difference between the two. Whether he is biased or not might be closer to the antithesis of your point
That is just one of the potential beauties of it, use what you want - your personal (respected) view points of anything outside of the 1541A core board would be irrelevant.
That includes all brands of resistors, caps, philosophies on DEM, I2S attenuation, the whole lot - out the window as irrelevant - use what you want.
IMHO this is the only way you're going to get past the trivial (sorry) issues.
So far as costs are concerned..
If there were 100 units at 100$, minus costs.. theres a whole chunk to donate to somewhere worthwhile. Sometime you have to appeal to a need more than "I want", even if in truth it is about that - you need to open it up to more than that. Otherwise, and I can promise you this - better just go and buy Audial Model S, or AMR CD-77 if you can stretch.
Populate the core board?. Use what you want. Pana FM caps, PPS decouplers, carbon or metal film resistors and a couple solid state bits. $200?, $150?, $100?
Custom transformer $100?
Output stage? buy one of Olivers lamp ccts for <<$$ or build your own. Or pull the RIAA from your phono amp and use that
Drive it with WaveIO $99EU, or whatever you want - right the way up to full FIFO to PCM at, whats the price on that $500 - $600 depending on clocks?.
So, build cost might run between 400 - 1k2 depending on what you want. USD. Its not 8k GDP. And if you get 100 units, it might push the better part of 6k toward a charity somewhere.
And FWIW the ability to play around with DEM isn't a limitation, it just represents an option. Kind of like building with a chip amp or something more discrete.
Time to go. I have the Pedja board and the bits hanging off of it. All I'm saying is don't give up and stay focussed. Its worth it.
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in my humble experience differential tda1543 setup with salas shunt for both cs8412, dac chips, and unbalance conversion with a quality tamura transformer beats a single tda1541 setup with same regulators, grundig reclock, passive i/v to meager fetishizator stage. i can only judge by ears but 1543 has bigger soundstage, more dynamic and detail. no doubt the fetishizator is the weakest link in the chain but it makes me wonder if this 1543x 2 setup is some sort of budget pinnacle.
IIRC he was using a modified version of the commercial 1541A offering by diyhifi.com, which was based - loosely, or perhaps not, on a guy called 'Thomas' dual 1541A build based in HK, to which Mr. T was offering info toward, yet was largely ignored. Hence the modifications.
IIRC He preferred the xx-777 to his modified Satch DAC, and there was also some comment toward the preamp/volume control being quite competitive to what he had on hand, and all over it was the better option.
What this highlighted to me was the circuits driving the tda1541A (Satch) etc and not the tda1541A itself. Feed it with something 'decent' and YMMV.
Hi guys, I am slowly coming back to this DIY after some time focusing on other things....
After being away for more than 1.5 years, I notice that the interest/hype in tda1541a has subsided somewhat, but that a few fanatics still resist in adopting newer chipsets. Yet, I am surprised to see that this thread which was started when I was still active, and is still ongoing now, has not produced any tangible results whatsoever... It's still all TALK about amr, tda, implementation, whether a kit can beat a commercial product etc. Unfortunately nobody has apperently fired up the old soldering iron to at least give it a try!
The past few years (before the break) , I have been working on an 'ultimate' mediadac based on tda1541a. Read everything about the chipset, from pedja, thorsten, John and other gurus. I am myself not schooled in electronics, so I needed to read every word they said three times to understand, and twenty times to implement them...
Nonetheless I have a well functioning design for a tda1541a mainboard, featuring:
- i2s input (I use squeezebox i2s output)
- salas shunt regs on the mainboard, implemented in smd to fit 4 regulators
- i2s conditioning based on john's guidance (attenuator - limiter)
- bck reclock on board, also fed with shunt regulator
- dem based on capacitor tuned for the particular chip I use (forgot which frequency)
- close decoupling of the tda pins
- smd design so the whole thing fits on a eurocard
My further impementation includes a Gomes stage as in cd-77, fed by salas hv shunts, extensive power conditioning etc.
Needless to say it sounds quite darn good.... But I am quite sure that it's not optimal due to me not being a pro. If there is any interest, I would be willing to share the design, on the condition that the group takes it, reviews it, and puts the effort to further improve it. I think there are some guys here with much more experience and expertise, so I hope I can learn something from that....
Let me know if and how.
After being away for more than 1.5 years, I notice that the interest/hype in tda1541a has subsided somewhat, but that a few fanatics still resist in adopting newer chipsets. Yet, I am surprised to see that this thread which was started when I was still active, and is still ongoing now, has not produced any tangible results whatsoever... It's still all TALK about amr, tda, implementation, whether a kit can beat a commercial product etc. Unfortunately nobody has apperently fired up the old soldering iron to at least give it a try!
The past few years (before the break) , I have been working on an 'ultimate' mediadac based on tda1541a. Read everything about the chipset, from pedja, thorsten, John and other gurus. I am myself not schooled in electronics, so I needed to read every word they said three times to understand, and twenty times to implement them...
Nonetheless I have a well functioning design for a tda1541a mainboard, featuring:
- i2s input (I use squeezebox i2s output)
- salas shunt regs on the mainboard, implemented in smd to fit 4 regulators
- i2s conditioning based on john's guidance (attenuator - limiter)
- bck reclock on board, also fed with shunt regulator
- dem based on capacitor tuned for the particular chip I use (forgot which frequency)
- close decoupling of the tda pins
- smd design so the whole thing fits on a eurocard
My further impementation includes a Gomes stage as in cd-77, fed by salas hv shunts, extensive power conditioning etc.
Needless to say it sounds quite darn good.... But I am quite sure that it's not optimal due to me not being a pro. If there is any interest, I would be willing to share the design, on the condition that the group takes it, reviews it, and puts the effort to further improve it. I think there are some guys here with much more experience and expertise, so I hope I can learn something from that....
Let me know if and how.
Hi Studiostevus,
Quite a long time since ECDESIGNS thread...
Such a design is complicated, if I remember you maid a masterclock to feed the squeezebox à la John Swenson ? Never saw shematics, read three times was not enough for me...
Please share...
Myseld have a new heatsink with electric fan for my double TDA1541A (1989 Milesim... very hot)... jheater free ! But hesitate with the best Danish DAC ever made : TDA1664... which with moderation got the best result where you are living today!
Quite a long time since ECDESIGNS thread...
Such a design is complicated, if I remember you maid a masterclock to feed the squeezebox à la John Swenson ? Never saw shematics, read three times was not enough for me...
Please share...
Myseld have a new heatsink with electric fan for my double TDA1541A (1989 Milesim... very hot)... jheater free ! But hesitate with the best Danish DAC ever made : TDA1664... which with moderation got the best result where you are living today!
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