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Old 16th March 2004, 03:37 PM   #1
Fragen is offline Fragen  Australia
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Perth, WA.
Default Linn LP12 first mod?

Hi,
This is my first post to this top forum but Ive been hanging around reading other posts for a couple of months. Nice bank of information you guys have built up.

Anyway, I have read that Linn Sondek LP12's are overpriced and under-engineered? and not worth getting, however I picked my one up today from the side of the road (Hard-rubbish day in my great city where they actually throw out $1000+ turntables) and so I couldn't care less. Im pleased with it already.

Question is, anyone know a good place to get it serviced in Perth, Western Australia? I switched it on and the motor runs smooth, however the belt wont stay on and so I think it just needs a new belt and a service.

Also, any ideas for the first most necesarry mod? cables look a bit tatty or should I jump right in with major stuff?

(In case your wondering, I also picked up some OK speakers and a mint-ish Sony CD player, yamaha amp and a jarrah cofee table, just stuff I've spotted driving to school this week! I saw an old tube TV today but by the time I got back someone had already stripped it for parts.)

Cheers
Dan
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Old 16th March 2004, 07:58 PM   #2
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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The belt won't stay on due to some form of misalignment.

You don't say what arm is fitted, or cartridge, or power supply.

Generally the better the turntable and the the more tweaking
the manafacturer has done, the less likely it is that "mods" will
improve matters.

You need to learn how to set it up properly etc. before you mod it.

Try here to start :

http://www.n.mackie.btinternet.co.uk/linn/tlp12faq.html

sreten.
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Old 16th March 2004, 08:28 PM   #3
Did it Himself
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Agree with sreten.

I swapped my old DJ decks with a friend for his LP12, what a bargain I got! I would say that the electronics in them is an absolute joke. They are very well engineered mechanically, but I don't think they had a clue about the electronics in them when they first came out.

Mine has the Valhalla upgrade to crystal-controlled speed. This is the only upgrade I would bother with, if yours doesn't have it. It's a right pain changing the adaptor for speed changes, but I can't justify the cost of the next upgrade to make it changeable by switch. Why they couldn't include this function when they did the Valhalla upgrade just proves them to be chimps when it comes to electronics IMO.

The belt kept coming off mine. First it's essential that the platter is set up properly with the 3 adjusters underneath. I did this by putting it across 2 flat chairs and laying on the floor under the deck. Once everything is nice and even and level you can turn your attention to the screws by the motor on the top. These adjust the angle and thus where the belt rides the platter.

I have an LP12 owners manual which I have just put on my webspace.

http://www.richie00boy.pwp.blueyonde...ers_manual.pdf
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Old 16th March 2004, 08:42 PM   #4
medum is offline medum  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally posted by richie00boy

....I have an LP12 owners manual which I have just put on my webspace.....


Thanks - I can't remember where i left mine in '73, when I bought one of the first LP12's in Denmark (without a wooden plint). The price then was for me about 140 US $, and I'm sure I can make a profit on it selling it now, but I won't!

Mine is the one without electronic servo. Just a motor and a belt - just 33,3 rpm (that's why it' called LP12). I don't have the need for tweaking - it's a good design in the first place.
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Old 16th March 2004, 09:12 PM   #5
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Hi Dan,

Two things that you can safely do to your LP12 are the corner bracing and the bolt mod.

These are not modifications as such, they are genuine Linn updates. General opinion is that both are well worthwhile with no drawbacks at all.

For step by step instructions look HERE .

Paul.
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Old 16th March 2004, 09:32 PM   #6
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Generally the better the turntable and the the more tweaking
the manafacturer has done, the less likely it is that "mods" will
improve matters.

-------------------------------------------------------
But Linn actually encourages tweaking by constantly changing bits in the deck.

I have two Linn LP12s, one with all the mods, but I actually prefer my Garrad 301 (modded) , Luxman PD300 and Pioneer PL1000!

Thje Linn is coloured in the mid/lower bass whatever is done.

Not only that but each dealer seem to have his own way of setting up, some quite wrong in that the suspension comes back wonky. You can do a better job yourself. And all this business about polishing the belt-----!
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Old 16th March 2004, 09:50 PM   #7
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by fmak
But Linn actually encourages tweaking by constantly changing bits in the deck.

I have two Linn LP12s, one with all the mods, but I actually prefer my Garrad 301 (modded) , Luxman PD300 and Pioneer PL1000!

The Linn is coloured in the mid/lower bass whatever is done.

Not only that but each dealer seem to have his own way of setting up, some quite wrong in that the suspension comes back wonky. You can do a better job yourself. And all this business about polishing the belt-----!
Agree with every point. But I think mods to a Linn should follow
Linns Mods even if you do them yourself, or a version of them.

Unlike say a Thorens TD160 which is a modfest, as its more
bolted together than designed, with a Linn proceed with caution.

sreten.
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Old 16th March 2004, 11:25 PM   #8
Fragen is offline Fragen  Australia
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Cheers, I'll look into all that info which look sto be a great help.

Quote:
You don't say what arm is fitted, or cartridge, or power supply.
The arm is a Mission 774, the Cartridge is a Denon 5125

Thanks.
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Old 17th March 2004, 12:48 AM   #9
KBK is offline KBK  Canada
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Lifted from a TT discussion thread I contributed to on the AVSForum Let's see what you guys think about it. It is not fuly worked out as posts go, but I did do it off the top of my head:

Level the turntable body on a set of books, video tapes, whatever, with the bottom plate off and the unit UNPLUGGED FROM THE AC..as there is AC live and open AC wiring under the unit!!!

Each spring has a orientation pattern. There is a 'end' point for each spring, ie., where the 'spring-wire' itself ends. The end of the coil. This should be the top of the spring that is oriented. Place the end of that wire so it points outward from the spindle or bearing point in a radial pattern, exactly the opposite of pointing toward the bearing. This stresses the system so it pulls evenly in all directions.

Then, dress the cables so they do not stress the suspension system.. so they are free floating. Then set the belt height, (by placing the platter on UPSIDE DOWN, with the mat and a record on top of it, so it sits at it's operational ride height!!) and the armboard height, by adjusting the springs..

The armboard should be centered on the sub-chassis, and then the space around the armboard should be even on all sides. THEN, place a 'average weight' record on the platter, put the arm over the record (with the arm raiser holding it off the record). Then proceed to bounce the suspension, and slowly adjust the spring heights slightly, very slightly..and wiggle the springs bout so they don't rub, maybe turning them slightly so the rub is minimized.. in a way so the belt stressing is counteracted. Each suspension point (spring point) should bounce or move fo exactly the same amount of time, no more, no less. It is not in any way considered as being properly adjusted if it is not doing exactly that.

The springs will have to be wiggled a bit, even after the proper point is reached, as they do drift to a new final point before settling in. Just wiggle the top and bottom of the springs a bit in their new positions. It has to do with how the top and bottom of the spring sits with respect to their top and bottom rubber grommets. There will be a slight initial drift when attempting to do the 'spring rate' (bounce) adjustment.

The real trick is the turning of the springs to get them to sit right, stress the belt right , center the armoard.. AND not rub -- so the suspension works without adding noise via the rubbing. It also fails in it's primary purpose if it rubs!! Don't forget that!.... that's where the indistinct bass on a LP 12 comes from. It totally rocks if the suspension is not rubbing.

If this cannot be done, by someone who has vast experience with TT's, then the unit needs new springs and rubber grommets. Stop hurting yourself and buy a spring kit.

A pro can do this in less than 10 minutes, heck.. 5 minutes.....and the turntable will NEVER drift if it is done right.

This is what I had to take 5 years to figure out by myself. The usual case.


__________________

Apparently, I forgot about how worn belts tend to slip right off the pulley. Besides the belt/motor leveling that needs to be done. The motor should lean slightly back. Almost imperceptibly.
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Old 17th March 2004, 07:21 AM   #10
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Location: London UK
Quote:
Originally posted by KBK
Lifted from a TT discussion thread I contributed to on the AVSForum Let's see what you guys think about it. It is not fuly worked out as posts go, but I did do it off the top of my head:

Level the turntable body on a set of books, video tapes, whatever, with the bottom plate off and the unit UNPLUGGED FROM THE AC..as there is AC live and open AC wiring under the unit!!!

Each spring has a orientation pattern. There is a 'end' point for each spring, ie., where the 'spring-wire' itself ends. The end of the coil. This should be the top of the spring that is oriented. Place the end of that wire so it points outward from the spindle or bearing point in a radial pattern, exactly the opposite of pointing toward the bearing. This stresses the system so it pulls evenly in all directions.

Then, dress the cables so they do not stress the suspension system.. so they are free floating. Then set the belt height, (by placing the platter on UPSIDE DOWN, with the mat and a record on top of it, so it sits at it's operational ride height!!) and the armboard height, by adjusting the springs..

The armboard should be centered on the sub-chassis, and then the space around the armboard should be even on all sides. THEN, place a 'average weight' record on the platter, put the arm over the record (with the arm raiser holding it off the record). Then proceed to bounce the suspension, and slowly adjust the spring heights slightly, very slightly..and wiggle the springs bout so they don't rub, maybe turning them slightly so the rub is minimized.. in a way so the belt stressing is counteracted. Each suspension point (spring point) should bounce or move fo exactly the same amount of time, no more, no less. It is not in any way considered as being properly adjusted if it is not doing exactly that.

The springs will have to be wiggled a bit, even after the proper point is reached, as they do drift to a new final point before settling in. Just wiggle the top and bottom of the springs a bit in their new positions. It has to do with how the top and bottom of the spring sits with respect to their top and bottom rubber grommets. There will be a slight initial drift when attempting to do the 'spring rate' (bounce) adjustment.

The real trick is the turning of the springs to get them to sit right, stress the belt right , center the armoard.. AND not rub -- so the suspension works without adding noise via the rubbing. It also fails in it's primary purpose if it rubs!! Don't forget that!.... that's where the indistinct bass on a LP 12 comes from. It totally rocks if the suspension is not rubbing.

If this cannot be done, by someone who has vast experience with TT's, then the unit needs new springs and rubber grommets. Stop hurting yourself and buy a spring kit.

A pro can do this in less than 10 minutes, heck.. 5 minutes.....and the turntable will NEVER drift if it is done right.

This is what I had to take 5 years to figure out by myself. The usual case.


__________________

Apparently, I forgot about how worn belts tend to slip right off the pulley. Besides the belt/motor leveling that needs to be done. The motor should lean slightly back. Almost imperceptibly.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is Black Magic and bad mechanical design. Don't forget to dust the grommets with powder as well!!!

It says a lot for marketeers who can sell on the basis of um machining (nonsense unless you use nanotechnology machining) and supposed inferiority of direct drive.
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